Topic started by Bala Pillai (@ nas1ppp20.sydneywerks.com.au) on Sat Dec 22 16:58:13 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Nanbargale,

What was the population of Tamils in the Sangam Ages when much of Tamil was created? 100,000?

How come 70 million Tamils cannot maintain a language that was created by 100,000?

anbudan../bala
Founder, Thamil Inniyam (since 1995)
http://www.tamil.net
sydney, australia

** For candy go to Thamil Innaiya Erumbugal at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/erumbugal **

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Madhu (@ webproxy03qfe0.sbi.com) on: Thu Jan 3 09:53:08
  
  Sombu Nilagreiser,
  "How many of you have friends who would say Padma or Bathma, Poori and Buri etc.?"
  
  You are arguing about script not language. Languages are old, but scripts are relatively new. English language has missing basic consonant sounds like 'tha', 'dha', 'cha', 'sa'. Sanskrit language takes great pride in pronounciation of sounds is able to adopt to English script. Tamil is a great language but the script is missing some basic consonant sounds like English. Indian language scripts are ideal for hand-writing but very bad for automation(computers). I am fighting for 20 years to change the Telugu language writing system to adopt to Computer. Microsoft Windows XP supports the Indic languages. You have to enter two are more keys to see a character cluster. If you make a mistake, you have to delete the entire word not just one letter like English. Your energies are better spent if you work on how to improve the script and the writing system. There are many benefits if we change our writing script and eliminate super imposition.
  
  
• From: Sombu Nilagreiser (@ adsl-81-46-28.asm.bellsouth.net) on: Thu Jan 3 09:53:26
  
  This is from the forum "noname" mentioned:
  From: K.Balasubramanian (@ 202.54.102.200) on: Mon Jun 28 05:26:29
  I am glad to see a lot of response to the need I felt for having more sounds in tamil. Vanchi makes a good case for dropping vallina Ra. But he is trying to ruffle the feelings of tamil purists who "obviously" see the difference between vallina Ra and idaiyina ra. Let me make my position very clear. I don't want to meddle with literary tamil. That will be opposed tooth and nail by "rational" tamil purists. I see the importance of viewpoints of purists, the traditionalists. My aim is quite mundane. What I suggest is evolving a tamil to be used ONLY for reading and writing science. A student studying science in tamil is ignorant of the actual pronunciation of scientific terms. Consequently he cuts a sorry figure when he is not within tamil group. The tamil I am suggesting can be used even in magazines where a lot of scientific information is presented.
  Let me make some suggestions. These are only primitive suggestions. People with more knowledge in tamil publishing and sciences may be able to suggest better solutions.
  Tamil cannot distinguish pa and Ba. People use their own idiosyncracy in messing up with the sounds. I have heard poori pronounced boori. Moreover if pa occurs in the middle it is traditionally pronounced ba. I don't have quarrel with these things. But a scientific term should be properly introduced with correct pronunciation.
  To represent ba we can use /pa, an extra / before our usual pa. If we want to stress pa (particularly if it occurs in the middle) we can use *pa. For example we may write *ka*pam; it is commonly pronounced *ka/pam (*kabam). You can now read the following.
  /ka*tam, /pen/seen, *pen/sil, /sia/kra//pi (geography).
  We can do away with the letters in vadamozhi; but the sounds can be retained with the extra symbols / and *. These extra symbols are available in keyboards and will not cause any printing problems. The vada ezhuththu sa which is nowadays mostly replaced by cha can be revived through /cha
  Ja will be //cha. Fa will be //pa, as ba will be /pa. I will even go the extent of using *la, /la and //la for la, La, and zha.
  I want these changes ONLY for scientific writing and some popular writing in magazines. I will not arrogate myself to suggest changes in literary tamil written for literary purposes. For such purposes grammarians and literateurs have to take initiative. But my mind is NOT in it. I will be satisfied with a sort of scientific tamil.
  I invite the widespread tamil diaspora to react to my suggestions.
  Frankly I was motivated by Knuth's TeX, a typesetting language for science.
  
  K.Balasubramanian
  28-6-1999.
  
  
• From: Sombu Nilagreiser (@ adsl-81-46-28.asm.bellsouth.net) on: Thu Jan 3 10:09:19
  
  Mr. Madhu:
  "noname" argues that Tholkappiyam says how to write Ka and Ga etc. From what I read in the Literature forum (enclosed in another posting) that these sounds can be written with modern improvisation.
  Also anti-srilankan tamil's terrorism does not make me an anti-tamil.
  
  
• From: Sombu Nilagreiser, (@ adsl-81-46-28.asm.bellsouth.net) on: Thu Jan 3 11:48:27
  
  It is interesting that those who are hiding behind proxy servers, fake IP addresses, and afraid of revealing their names are the ones who claim to be Tamils, Dravidians, Cuture and conscience keepers, moralists, Dravidians, literates, patriots, defenders of the Tamil language, and protectors of Tamils around the world. What are they afraid of? I have publicly posted my name several times, Tamil is my mother toungue and my son learnt Tamil in UC Berkeley.
  Beware of the "noname" and others who confuse Tamil enthusiasts with militant Tamil views. Tamil culture does not promote hatred and violence. Tamil culture does not promote Hindu, non-Hindu, Dravidian-aryan, south-north, Tamil-non-tamil, divisions nor does it suggest that Tamils should support other Tamils even if they resort to violence.
  Nisala:
  You are right. Those that haven't learn from their past mistakes are destined to repeat the same mistake again. I should have stayed away from these forums. This time a real "vanakkam, nanri, meendum..?"
  
  
• From: I (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on: Thu Jan 3 15:48:53
  
  Those who really want to truthfully understand Tamil as a language can acess the following lists
  
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pmadurai/
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CTamil
  
  fa can be written as
  
  ahenam and pa
  
  further
  
  www.tamil.net\lists
  
  has had a great collection of articles on this very subject.
  
  Further I know Dr. Parthsarathy is still hooked on to this list but if he were ONLY truely against Sri Lank Tamil millitancy he would have siad what he said about them as a PEOPLE. He has simply bought into the stereo typical caricature created by some of the media mafia types in Chennai.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Thamilchelvan (@ l-ml403-9g.cavern.carleton.ca) on: Tue Jan 8 20:41:32
  
  Well, They should say "kundu" for bomb! Don't expect Tamil to say non-Tamil words in Tamil smoothly.
  
  Can an English say Thamizh properly! NO So what's the big deal?
  
  As for the scientific terms, invent (make) a new Tamil word!
  For example Patriotic Tamils have coined the word "ThuLiam" for Quantum!
  
  As for Noname's identity, does it matter who he's , we're here to argue and the thoughts not the posters' age, address, name, face etc!
  
  Nisala, in Tamil Eelam we don't teach age 4 children to use guns, But if children are constantly seeing SL army shooting their parents in front of them wouldn't they be incline to use one. There's one more reason, they've to protect them selves from the sons of lion (semi-human creatures living south ot Tamil Eelam), you may not have heard about it, but in Mirucivil, Tamil Eelam a 5 yrear old was brutally killed by these creatures! They call themselves sl army! Recruited by PEACE LOVING SIHAL BUDDIST !!!
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 129.212.54.201) on: Tue Jan 8 21:20:38
  
  "Patriotic Tamils have coined the word "ThuLiam" for Quantum!"
  
  Perhaps, that is the end of all their contribution to Quantum Mechanics! Mindless translation is no sign of progress. If Tholkappiyar defined rules for amalgamating words from other languages into Tamil, what stops our contemporaries? Fanaticism?
  
  
• From: sathuragiri vel (@ 202.9.154.91) on: Tue Jan 8 23:42:58
  
  This is height of ignorance among non-tamils and wannabe non-tamils like Sombu.
  
  Any language has that many number of characters that is reqwuired by its own populace to manage their written communication in thier language. The actual number depends on many factors and it keeps changing as the language grows and expands.
  
  As far as Bomb and Shoe in tamil is concerned, we prefer translating it in Tamil appropriately and use it. For those of you, who want to comment on tamil because you want to speak an English word in Tamil with English pronounciations, go and fly and kite. If at all we want to use specific English/Sansrkit words in tamil, there are methods to pronounce them like the way English sometimes silences 'f' or 'h' in certain cases. By taking your logic, no language in this world can exactly pronounce the words of another languages as they are. Why pick on tamil alone?
  
  
  
• From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg) on: Fri Feb 27 01:56:21
  
  Sathuragiri - you said it right!
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 61.247.246.103) on: Fri Feb 27 04:20:02 EST 2004
  
  That is why Tamilians eat
  bizza and purger, baroda?
  
  
• From: raj (@ 216.126.204.32) on: Sat Feb 28 17:49:45 EST 2004
  
  Okay when and how Tamilians started keeping names like
  
  LINGARAJ ( KING OF PE-NIS)
  
  
• From: tamlian (@ 61.247.247.149) on: Sun Feb 29 13:37:30 EST 2004
  
  
  /// From: Harish Kumar (@ 203-195-203-203.now-india.net.in) on: Sat Feb 28 03:55:54 EST 2004
  
  
  Why is aids so high in TN and karnataka when only in North India peopel sit next to each other in buses ? Plus punjab has the most joyous and extroverted community , but why not aids there.We southerners need to ponder about it.//
  
  Once I boarded a Chennai city bus, i found whole bus on right side was full of loongi males, and many other loongis were standing , though the left side of bus was empty with just two to three ladies. I coudn't resist myself in packed bus and went and sat on left side. First conductor shouted which some one explained that you are not suppose to sit on left side. Because tamil girls are like angles. I accepted that, but then i said what difference it makes as long as I am not teasing them or touching them. By then all the available ladies got up and said bus will not move...
  
  But still I find illegal sex, AIDS, immoral traffic, cheap lodges with prostitues, tamil prostitutes everywhere in India.. can some one tell me what is exact Tamil culture or it is just pervertness. Even police do not allow you to sit with a girl on beach or park, rather they will ask you go to cheap lodge nearby..
  
  it shows that Tamil culture commands if boy and girls are known to each other means only sex is involved , they cannot be friends or good neighbours, if you talk to girl in neighbourhood means you have sexual relation, and people are looked down..
  
  Any way after north Indian started settling in Tamilnadu , it has become little cultured.other wise it would have been devil's place and 100% AIDS, atleast because of northy's someof them have learned some protection and healthy way of meeting girls. so only 60% of AIDS. Thx to North Indians for making this people little bit cultured.
  
  
• From: Elumpan (@ 142.76.1.62) on: Fri Mar 5 12:57:45 EST 2004
  
  That's nowday Thamizh culture...do it without others knows and prevent it in front of others...as it goes anyway. You are right about lot of the things.
  
  The Thamizh population during Sanga Literature would have varied around 1 million and perhaps 5,000 years ago it could have been 10 times that or so. According to what I think lot of Thamizhans died and became non-Thamizhan after few thousand years like Telugu, Kannadist, Malayalist, The ones in U.P and those in Bangladesh..(about 70% or up of the Indian Population may have Thamizh roots)
  
  
• From: mannang katti (@ cpe000d87502883-cm00003993d65b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Fri Mar 5 13:15:10 EST 2004
  
  Tamils had no DATING system.
  
  Then how can the SANGAM age get defined?
  
  Just make false claims like thirukural is 2000 years old or other works 5000 years old?
  
  
• From: udaya (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Sat Mar 6 06:50:22 EST 2004
  
  they are dated with the help of dubious statements from sinhalese mahavansha which may mean ist century A.D.or 10 th century A.D.
  
  
• From: mannang katty (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sun Mar 7 06:46:35 EST 2004
  
  Maha Vansa dont tell anything about Thirukkural.
  Further dates of kings mentioned in Maha Vansa supported by many inscriptions. Maha Vansa is the only document accepted by many scholors and unversities as a credible one.
  
  Even the Silapathikaram is dated with the help of Maha Vansa.
  
  Can you show a single ancient Tamil work to find a date of anything?
  
  
  
• From: tamilaaa (@ h-66-134-126-45.lsanca54.covad.net) on: Sun Mar 7 07:03:33 EST 2004
  
  From: Harish Kumar (@ 203-195-203-203.now-india.net.in) on: Mon Feb 16 04:27:54 EST 2004
  
  
  Plus all said and done , there are some plus points to the North Indian way of life and culture.Especially with regards to openness and socialising.I think its something we need to adopt.
  
  We must realise that before brahminism became strong in SI , even SI were broadminded and open.Just look at the erotic literature in both tamil and kannada of the pre-medieval period.
  
  
  Why Tamils are mad after
  barotha ghuruma
  figure,
  beer
  lodge
  and plumpy jetty less girls.
  
  
  
  
  

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