Topic started by Raj (@ proxy2-external.stcla1.sfba.home.com) on Mon Feb 12 23:23:18 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

When brahmins begin filtering into the south, they tried to integrate themselves into the local communities. For example, Brahmins of kerala married Nair women,etc. Now vellals were a dominant land owning community and were known all over south india. Have the brahmins who came into tamil nadu also married velalla women or carried out a similar practice with vellala women like what the kerala brahmins did with nair women? What about other immigrant communities that tried to integrate themselves into the vellala community due to its dominance? I believe tamils especially coastal tamils had extensive trading going with many foreigners like romans,arabs, greeks, did some of these people who settled in madras,or other coastal cities, integrate themselves into the tamil vellala communities? I say this because of all tamil castes, the vellala one is the broadest.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Tue Aug 19 04:54:18 EDT 2003
  
  Kari Kal Chola still a story and without any evidences.
  
  Tamil History too a fun and only TAMILS have a caste called KALLAN =Thief from them the VELLALA Tamils evolved.
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Tue Aug 19 06:40:47 EDT 2003
  
  I suppose origin of typical Vellalas are sssociated with Jainism and traditional north indian type kingdoms in the south india.
  
  Vellalas are similar to Lingayaths in Kannada areas in being closely associated with instittutionalised religious establishment which were at the begnning belong to Shramana orders like Buddhism and Jainism later turning into pure brahman establishments.
  I agree that at present there are lot of former hill tribes are in Vellala category especially among Jaffna Vellalas.As they[Thevans]were outside the Prakrit civilization in T.N they were not allowed to enter Temples about 600 years ago.But later they themselves established type of Kingdoms under Naike protection in those unirrigable areas lying between Chola and Pandya areas.
  It is also true that Vanniyan as well as Thevan are much larger castes than all vellala groups put together.
  
  It is obvious if we consider TN vellalas they are the prominent Tamil caste who are similar to Brahmans in appearance as well as in their customs.
  Descendants of Chola and Pandya royalties as well as many degraded brahmana groups today declares as belonging to some subcaste of Vellalas and in case of Jaffna they advertise just as Vellalas in marriage columns without any shame
  The irrigated lands of Cholas and Pandyas are in the hands of big land owners of Vellala subcastes for about 500 years now.
  
  In T.N Temple menial caste of Sengunthar weavers is also considered as a group of Vellala now.Only in Shri lanka they have become cinemmon peelers and group outside Sinhalese caste system.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Wed Aug 20 05:05:11 EDT 2003
  
  Velu..
  You fart too much.
  No Sengunthas became Cinnomon peelers in Sri Lanka. They are still in Nallur. They are the people in the forefront of TAMIL issues there.
  
  You guys think NATTUVANS too Sengunthas. Nattuvans are the temple servants. Sengunthas always work and die for Hindu religion.
  
  They have nothing to do with Vellala.
  
  
• From: Vishnu (@ on-tor-blr-a58-01-212.look.ca) on: Thu Sep 11 00:08:07
  
  Don't BS guys. There was originally no caste system for South Indians. Some say kings became Brahmin while others say Brahmins mixed with others castes and become the dominant. The truth is S India was originally castless and then adopted a corrupt Hindu caste system.
  
  As for Vellala, there are too many claims about them. Some say they are cultivators, others say land owner, and some say they weren't Tamil. I need to do more research on them but I Karthi I would like to some links to update me on this. I don't want no Dalitstan, LTTE, or any other fanatical Tamil BS. No offense but many of their claims are so damn pathetic.
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Thu Sep 11 04:21:20 EDT 2003
  
  If Sri lanka had caste system for 3000 years it is aukward that T.N. did not have that till !0th century.Probably most of Tamil speakers would have lived in other destinations like Muslims in T.N. or They must have lived in jungles and forests like Thevans and Vannians without living in the kingdoms which shaped the mentality of presewnt tamilian
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Thu Sep 11 09:54:12 EDT 2003
  
  Velu...
  Where did you find that Sri lanka had caste system for 3000 years?
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Fri Sep 12 04:18:38 EDT 2003
  
  The berials at Pomparippu and similar sites at Arikamedu in south india shows occupation of these areas by a iron using people who had their leaders cremated and buried in earthenware vessels.
  These cultures shows a highly stratified society where chiefs were divine
  So this situation has continued till 1000B.C. when potteries with Brahmi letters appeared.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Fri Sep 12 15:49:55 EDT 2003
  
  Are the present day people of these areas (Pomparippu and Arikkamedu) the decendants of the ancient same people of 1000 BC?
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Sat Sep 13 05:40:26 EDT 2003
  
  Dental studies show the people of Pomparippu in Sri Lanka and those found in Arikamedu,Kodumalan and other megalithic sites to be of the same people.
  You can search the Yahoo with ''Dentition''
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sun Sep 14 21:40:13 EDT 2003
  
  Tha is OK but my question is:
  
  Are the same people's decendants still exist today in the same places?
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Tue Sep 16 00:19:09 EDT 2003
  
  Present Tamilians dentition does not correlate at with the people who started iron age civililaztion in the south india.
  But I think these comparisons should have done castewise.I do not think it was done so.
  May be upper caste groups of Tamilnadu may show some similarities with thes iron using horse riders who deposited their leaders remains with that of their horses.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Thu Sep 18 16:57:07 EDT 2003
  
  The following was the census report of 1830 based on castes of Jaffna. Vellala Caste is less than 2% in Jaffna but now all Jaffna people call themselves Vellalas except a few.
  
  Many castes now become Vellala in Jaffna. The Sinhala Covias, Madapally, Paradesy, Chetty, Tannecara, Malayalam, Company Nalava, Tawasy, parambar and some sections of Pallar, Nalava, and Karayas too become Vellala.
  
  This is a clear evidence of TAMIL fraud and all the Tamils try to become HIGH castes by doing any frauds.
  
  How can these people talk on TRUE history of TAMILS while they steal other's history and change them as others?
  
  I posted this details and was that deleted by Forum Hub which is run by LTTE suporters from Sri Lanka and S/Afrika.
  
  This info is an official document done by Simon Cassi Chetty. He collected the infos for the Ceylon Gazeteer.
  
  
  DESCRIPTION of CASTES and RELIGIONS of the POPULAITION of the JAFFNA DISTRICT
  
  Burgher ---------------------------477 ------------------Washermen------------------2, 152
  Bramman -------------------------1,935 --------------------Moquah ------------------- 2, 532
  Chetty -------------------------- 1,807 ------------------- -Malialam------------------- 21 0
  Vellales--------------------------4,565---------------------- Covias ---------------------6,401
  Madadapally-------12,995--------Company Nallum -------739
  Moors ------------ 2,166 ------------Pallas---------6,313
  Paredesy---------- 1,830-------------Pareas---------1,621
  Mallagam---------- 1,501-------------Torambas---------197
  Caria------------- 7,562-------------Weavers----------272
  Brassfounder-------- 105-------------Cawere Chetty-----18
  Masons----------------47-------------Tawesy-----------437
  Turners---------------76-------------Nattowen----------22
  Weleper---------------50-------------Oil Monger---------4
  Caycolas-----------1,043-------------Tunmilah-------1,291
  Chanda-------------2,173-------------Pallevelly-------376
  Dyers----------------902-------------simpadawer--------40
  Chevia-------------1,593-------------Cadia------------970
  Pandaram--------------41-------------Nallua---------7,559
  Parawa----------------35-------------Potters----------329
  Tannecaras---------1,892-------------Ship carpenters---33
  Silversmith----------899-------------Marawa------------54
  Blacksmith-----------904-------------Choyaroot-digger-408
  Carpenters---------1,371-------------Paramber---------362
  Barbers------------1,024------------ Free slaves------348
  Slaves of Burghars----18
  TOTAL 1 23, 188
  
  RELIGION
  Protestant 839
  Roman Catholic 9,201
  Mohametan 2,166
  Heathen 110,982
  TOTAL 123,188
  
  
• From: . (@ ppp-219.65.96.84.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Sun Sep 28 15:57:16 EDT 2003
  
  karthi tell me your name nah?
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Tue Oct 7 01:18:21 EDT 2003
  
  There are are no Vellalas in Sri Lanka as there are no members of Sinhalese land owning and livestock owning group at present in the South india.
  
  There may be a connection among Sozhias,Pandias and Ethnic sinhalerse as well as nayars and Tulu land owners.
  But now for 2000 years they live in there separate kingdoms under different laws.
  So only Tamil speaking hanger arounds doing Toddy tapping,Fishinng go around those established ancient kingdoms like Tamil speaking Muslims
  
  

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