Topic started by Ashok (@ 12-255-214-107.client.attbi.com) on Tue Sep 24 02:24:27 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

As a method to unite our christian brethren with the hindu counterparts. I have made an attempt to establish a link in our religions, maybe this will allow us to loos at each other with a bit of familiarity. I will add more at a later date, as I want the discussion to continue... so the following is the first bit of my write up

Though created in distinct times, under disticnt cultures the Bible and the Gita have a lot of similarities. I want to examine a few of these, so that we can reconcile our hindu and christian brethren and maybe present a unique opportunity where we can have a common ground for Unity.

Lets start with the basics of The Bible, though I have major disagreements about whether the bible was divinely inspired or not, I have to concede to the idea that it does present us with some unique and amazing concepts, one of Divinity and the other of ideal life to follow. This is exemplified by the way that Jesus lived and lead his life. I will only look at the New Testament, eventhough the old testement is as much a part of the religion as the new.

Now to the Gita, the Gita was supposedly a conversation between Krishna and Arjuna, lets not get into when and whether it happened but lets examine the similarities in these two amazing testaments of leading an exemplary lifestyle. The Gita was recited by Lord Krishna in the battlefield to remind Arjuna about his Karmic duties, and also at the same time provide him with an understanding of “The Truth”..

Lets start with one of the basic conceptf of God and the divinity of Krishna/Christ, and the similarity in the concept of Advaita (hope the Christians in here will not mind in me using this term) ..

In John 14.20 Jesus says
At that day you shall know that I am in my father, and ye in me, and I in you

This is basically the concept of advaita, that God is within oneself. I am not saying that Jesus knew about advaitha but that this is a very similar concept to advaita.. So here is a line from the Gita saying the same thing..

Yena bhutany assent draksyasy atmany athomayi (gita 4.35)

This basically says “by this knowledge you will realize that all beings are in you and also in me… notice the similar concept of Advaita exemplified by this statement…

Another similarity
John 14.21 jesus says
“he who loveth me, will be loved by my father and will love him”

So this says that if you “love” Jesus, you love the lord as well as he loves you

Similarly in the Gita (7.17)
Lord Krishna says..
“Priyo hi jnanino tyartham aham sa ca mama priyah”

I am much beloved of the jnanin, and I too love much the jnanin…


I will wait to add more comments...

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: karthikdevan (@ ub.nic.in) on: Mon Dec 2 03:52:33
  
  Kumar,
  
  Need and Want are relative things.These may differ from person to person and with the same person, in various stages of life.
  
  Kannappar's story is not to be taken literally.Each Nayanmar's story denotes a particular type of Devotional worship and the qualities that are required of a worshipper.To stress some qualities certain things may have been exaggerated as they used to do that in Tamil poetry.
  
  Not only in Christianity , but everywhere the path of Spiritual life is perilous.Even to understand what is told in the Books or to understand the teachings of the Masters, a basic intellectual understanding of spiritual concepts is required.
  
  Due to the perilous nature of this path, Hinduism generally stresses on guidance by someone who has realised.This has ofcourse its drawbacks as we may fault in judging the proper guide and may be lured by the quacks.
  
  However, as i said earlier , atleast a basic understanding of the concepts will help us in gettting the right person to guide.
  
  I dont know as to why this is not present in Christianity.I find the Sufis have this practice of guides(Guru-Shishya) and they even have the lineages (Guru parampara) in many places.My inference is that it may have been there in the early times following Christ , then lateron it mightve disappeared.
  
  Its good to read your responses.I maynt be able to write for another two,three weeks.However, i will be in the ROM.Do continue your discussions with pradheep.
  
  
• From: ku (@ myangup0.connect.com.au) on: Mon Dec 2 21:48:20
  
  Karthik, thanks for your reponse. Yes, I do realise that stories, like that of Kannappa, is not to be taken literally; but nevertheless, I am inspired by what these stories teach. The same applies with the Bible. Some stories were meant to inspire, not to be taken literally.
  
  >>>>I dont know as to why this is not present in Christianity.I find the Sufis have this practice of guides(Guru-Shishya) and they even have the lineages (Guru parampara) in many places.My inference is that it may have been there in the early times following Christ , then lateron it mightve disappeared. <<<<
  
  Good observation. You are right in many ways. Witin the Cathloic church, such discipleship may exists in monastries, nunneries and the seminary. Other lay organisations may have a discipleship, where someone more matured in the faith acts as a guide to someone fairly new. In the contemporary Church, I suppose the priest is the 'guru' to his congregation.
  
  >>This has ofcourse its drawbacks as we may fault in judging the proper guide and may be lured by the quacks. <<
  
  Well, it's not exclusive to Hindus. We hear of many so called pastors and evengelicals who start their own organisation and push their own interpretation of the christian faith, which sometimes can lead to disasterous ends. I am sure you have heard of Jim Jones, who eventually led his followers to suicide. The same applies to David Koresh od Waco, Texas.
  
  Thanks once again, Karthik; I look forward to hearing from you again in a couple of weeks time
  
  
  
• From: Kumar (@ mygore0.connect.com.au) on: Mon Dec 2 21:48:26
  
  Karthik, thanks for your reponse. Yes, I do realise that stories, like that of Kannappa, is not to be taken literally; but nevertheless, I am inspired by what these stories teach. The same applies with the Bible. Some stories were meant to inspire, not to be taken literally.
  
  >>>>I dont know as to why this is not present in Christianity.I find the Sufis have this practice of guides(Guru-Shishya) and they even have the lineages (Guru parampara) in many places.My inference is that it may have been there in the early times following Christ , then lateron it mightve disappeared. <<<<
  
  Good observation. You are right in many ways. Witin the Cathloic church, such discipleship may exists in monastries, nunneries and the seminary. Other lay organisations may have a discipleship, where someone more matured in the faith acts as a guide to someone fairly new. In the contemporary Church, I suppose the priest is the 'guru' to his congregation.
  
  >>This has ofcourse its drawbacks as we may fault in judging the proper guide and may be lured by the quacks. <<
  
  Well, it's not exclusive to Hindus. We hear of many so called pastors and evengelicals who start their own organisation and push their own interpretation of the christian faith, which sometimes can lead to disasterous ends. I am sure you have heard of Jim Jones, who eventually led his followers to suicide. The same applies to David Koresh od Waco, Texas.
  
  Thanks once again, Karthik; I look forward to hearing from you again in a couple of weeks time
  
  
  
• From: KMM (@ cs6668103-167.austin.rr.com) on: Fri Dec 6 14:17:39
  
  Many Eastern Orthodox christian faiths like the Armenian or Syrian Christian church (there is a very small syrian christian community in Turkey today) follow ideals of 'guru-shishya' according to their own interpretation.
  
  
  
• From: mmc (@ 61.11.78.10) on: Sat Dec 7 03:23:59
  
  KMM,
  
  Armenian Church doesnt indulge in conversions too.They are one of the first countries to adopt to christianity.
  
  They have preserved their pre-christian Temples also in their capital city.
  
  
• From: Anand (@ 61.1.215.131) on: Mon Dec 16 09:15:40
  
  
  MMC you idiot.
  
  you and your anti-conversion bait.
  
  you are selling out Tamil Nadu in the name of Hindu unity. I am in tamil nadu, JJ is stupid only tamil regionalisim will make tamil nadu great. I was not a supporter of DMK now I am.
  
  you and your stupid amma.
  
  
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ 12-226-23-134.client.attbi.com) on: Wed Jan 1 03:48:05
  
  hi everyone,
  As a new year approach ( this is the only post, probably, that I am gonna post in this forum...) I thought it woulkd be appropriate to
  list some of the relevant comments mentioned in the Gita...
  in chapter 2.20-22 lord krishna says
  
  (20) This (atman) is never born nor does it ever die; nor is it taht it, haveing (once) existed, will not be agian; it is unborn, ever-lasting, immutable, and primeval; and it is not killed, though the body is kille.
  
  (21) Oh partha (arjuna) That man who has realised that it is indestructable, ever-lasting, unborn, and inexhautable, how and whom can he kill??
  
  (22) Just as a man, casting off old clothes puts on new onesm so the dehi I that is to sau, the atman, which owns the body), casting off old bodies, becomes united with others and new bodies.....
  
  I thought this would be a good way to start the new year... I am not going to post in any of the other threads, and probably not goign to post again in this either, but I thought I will leave with this insight!!!
  
  
• From: pradheep (@ 207.177.73.98) on: Mon Jan 6 18:26:06
  
  Its a pity ashok, that no one wants to discuss "truth". Most of the people are busy being religious and not spiritual.
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs6668103-167.austin.rr.com) on: Mon Jan 6 19:30:29
  
  Yes, kinda miss discussing spirtuality.
  
  "Uyarvara Uyarnala Udaiyavan Yavan, Avan!" - Nammazhwar in Thiruvaymozhi
  
  
• From: ashok (@ 12-226-23-134.client.attbi.com) on: Mon Jan 6 19:35:59
  
  Pradheep,
  this forum doesnt have people who want to/can discuss things which will not lead to a fight, what is the point in discussing spirituality in a forum like this, there are plenty of yahoo groups which are a good medium to discuss such topics, where people are not looking to see who to blame for their "imagined" problems....
  
  
• From: karthikdevan (@ sb.nic.in) on: Mon Jan 13 07:43:27
  
  I read this recently.I was surprised to see this definition.Very thought provoking:
  
  "...The Jews say that God is a jealous God. This doesn't mean that He is going to get angry if you love someone else. It isn't like that. It means that if you want to experience the Divine Presence, if you want to experience God, then you -- the little self -- can't be here because God can't share the throne with anybody. As long as the little ego is there, God won't be there -- it's either you or Him. They say in the Jewish tradition that anyone who sees God dies immediately. The meaning of this is that if the little ego experiences God, then it cannot exist anymore; it has to give way to the real God, which is within each person..."
  
  
• From: ashok (@ 12-226-23-134.client.attbi.com) on: Mon Jan 13 08:58:30
  
  MMC/karthikdevan,
  Thats because of the definition of god as per the jews is that GOD is "NOTHING BUT NOTHING" which seems self contradictory but is infact not... this is basically because the limited "knowledge" that we can be aware of.
  
  
• From: h.mohamed salahudeen (@ 61.11.74.33) on: Tue Feb 11 02:57:52
  
  when our bible is awiting for the last prophet who will be like prophet mosses and when we are finding that noah is the prophet of hindhus as per the vedas (in 72 places the name noah is there )and about the kalki who will come in arabia (as per the specifications of veda)and his name of the father and mother coincides with that of prophet mohamed (sal) and when the present science proves that we ar from one father and mother who lived along the lamuriyah continent(joint of india,srilanka&africa)before the great flood spoken in tamil litrature,bible,quran and in many stories of china,japnese etc, proved the ship of noah is found in the ice mountain in russia...... is there any one who want to know the true religion pray to god that he will show and if you want the specific book for all its and many more refrences of that type i will be gald to get you through email assalamualikum(may gods peace be upon u and all your family members).. wasalam
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Tue Feb 11 09:28:23
  
  //when our bible is awiting for the last prophet //
  
  These islamic pigs will stoop to any level. Say if the hindu vedas says that kalki avatara is mohammed, then why don't all of you were namams and worship vishnu? The issue of thengalai or vadagalai namam can be sorted out later.
  
  See some of the hoaxes by Islam rebutted:
  
  http://answering-islam.org/Hoaxes/kalkiavatar.html
  
  
• From: pradheep (@ ) on: Tue Mar 25 11:16:40
  
  I thought I could share this article with you that I read.
  
  Some of us get woken up by the harsh realities of life. We suffer so much that we wake up. But people keep bumping again and again into life. They still go on sleepwalking. They never wake up. Tragically, it never occurs to them that there may be another way. It never occurs to them that there may be a better way. Still, if you haven't been bumped sufficiently by life, and you haven't suffered enough, then there is another way: to listen. I don't mean you have to agree with what I'm saying. That wouldn't be listening. Believe me, it really doesn't matter whether you agree with what I'm saying or you don't. Because agreement and disagreement have to do with words and concepts and theories. They don't have anything to do with truth. Truth is never expressed in words. Truth is sighted suddenly, as a result of a certain attitude. So you could be disagreeing with me and still sight the truth. But there has to be an attitude of openness, of willingness to discover something new. That's important, not your agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. After all, most of what I'm giving you is really theories. No theory adequately covers reality. So I can speak to you, not of the truth, but of obstacles to the truth. Those I can describe. I cannot describe the truth. No one can. All I can do is give you a description of your falsehoods, so that you can drop them. All I can do for you is challenge your beliefs and the belief system that makes you unhappy. All I can do for you is help you to unlearn. That's what learning is all about where spirituality is concerned: unlearning, unlearning almost everything you've been taught. A willingness to unlearn, to listen.
  
  Are you listening, as most people do, in order to confirm what you already think? Observe your reactions as I talk. Frequently you'll be startled or shocked or scandalized or irritated or annoyed or frustrated. Or you'll be saying, "Great! "
  
  But are you listening for what will confirm what you already think? Or are you listening in order to discover something new? That is important. It is difficult for sleeping people. Jesus proclaimed the good news, yet he was rejected. Not because it was good, but because it was new. We hate the new. We hate it! And the sooner we face up to that fact, the better. We don't want new things, particularly when they're disturbing, particularly when they involve change. Most particularly if it involves saying, "I was wrong." I remember meeting an eighty-seven-year-old Jesuit in Spain; he'd been my professor and rector in India thirty or forty years ago. And he attended a workshop like this. "I should have heard you speak sixty years ago," he said. "You know something. I've been wrong all my life." God, to listen to that! It's like looking at one of the wonders of the world. That, ladies and gentlemen, is faith! An openness to the truth, no matter what the consequences, no matter where it leads you and when you don't even know where it's going to lead you. That's faith. Not belief, but faith. Your beliefs give you a lot of security, but faith is insecurity. You don't know. You're ready to follow and you're open, you're wide open! You're ready to listen. And, mind you, being open does not mean being gullible, it doesn't mean swallowing whatever the speaker is saying. Oh no. You've got to challenge everything I'm saying. But challenge it from an attitude of openness, not from an attitude of stubbornness. And challenge it all. Recall those lovely words of Buddha when he said, "Monks and scholars must not accept my words out of respect, but must analyze them the way a goldsmith analyzes-gold by cutting, scraping, rubbing, melting."
  
  When you do that, you're listening. You've taken another major step toward awakening. The first step, as I said, was a readiness to admit that you don't want to wake up, that you don't want to be happy. There are all kinds of resistances to that within you. The second step is a readiness to understand, to listen, to challenge your whole belief system. Not just your religious beliefs, your political beliefs, your social beliefs, your psychological beliefs, but all of them. A readiness to reappraise them all, in the Buddha's metaphor. And I'll give you plenty of opportunity to do that here.
  
  Anthony De Mello, SJ
  
  

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