Topic started by Chandra on Tue Aug 24 21:06:42 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Discuss the historical aspects of Ganesan.
A persistent notion instilled perhaps by Kalki through his historical novel "civakAmiyin capatham" is that ciRuththoNda nAyanAr brought the concept of ganesa to Tamil Nadu from Maharashtra.
The chettinadu piLLaiyAr patti vinAyakar in is said to predate vAthApi campaign by about 2 centuries.
Beyond that there is the question of whether the concept of Ganesa is Dravidian or not.
auvai prays to ganesa "cangkath thamiz mUnrum thA"...whereas there are no apparent evidences of ganesa worship in cangkam texts.
What gives?

Responses:

• From: chandra (@ user-38lcf24.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Tue Aug 24 21:24:05
  
  A.K.Narain, in his chapter "Ganesa: The Idea and The Icon" in the book "Ganesh: Studies of an Asian God" edited by Robert Brown (1991:SUNY Press) concludes the following(page:36):
  "
  1. Ganesa did not originate in the Vedic tradition.
  
  2. Ganesa's origin is primarily related to the pre- and non-Vedic traditions of elephant worship prevailing in the northwest, or broadly in the north.
  
  ...
  4. The sacredness of the elephant, aming other things, was related to mountains.
  
  ....
  8. While the earliest theriomorphic representation of the elephant may be dated from the times of the Harappa culture in the second millenium to the third millenia B.C., the earliest attempt at the therianthropomorphization was made during the first century B.C. under the patronage of the Indo-Greeks.
  
  ....
  10. ...elephant face,...the bell and the nagabandha may be traced back to the Indo-Greek times...So also some of the divine qualities of Ganesa, such as bestowing victory or success, auspiciousness, fertility, and prosperity, were already recognized from pre-Christian times. While none of the ideas and iconographic attributes mentioned above can be specifically related to a Vedic or Puranic Brahmanic context of Ganesa, it is not difficult to relate them to non-Brahmanic ones.".
  
  [theriomorph = animal form; therianthropomorph = animal+human form]
  
  So, it is clear that auvai, in perfectly keeping with her fame for unfathomable wisdom of Tamil culture, knew what she was talking about when she said "cangkath thamiz mUnRum thA"!
  He embodies the Tamil spirit.
  
  
• From: RR (@ proxy.krdl.org.sg) on: Sun Sep 12 22:22:48
  
  Vinaayaga chathurthi: oru varalaatru paarvai
  
  http://www.aaraamthinai.com/samayam/samayam.asp
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ dhcp-css-consult-12.lg.informix.com) on: Thu Nov 11 15:25:37
  
  Chandra, you would have heard of Kundalini Shakthi which is supposed to be existing at the bottom of the spine. When the Shakthi merges with its consort in the Sahasrahara(the yogic 1000 petalled lotus), the person loses his sense of identity and more or less perceives the world as a manifestation of the undifferentiated absolute. The Shakthi however, has to pass through Muladhara Chakra which is the first nerve centre that it encounters on its way up. Ganesha is the presiding deity of the Chakra and therefore he is also called as Muladhara Murthy. Probably , this is the reason for his being referred to as the 'remover of obstacles'. Therefore,it is only with Ganesha's permission that even Parvati (Shakthi) can be on her way to merging with her consort. This pretty much explains the story of Ganesha standing guard when Parvati was having her bath.
  
  
• From: Sanjay (@ 1cust206.tnt18.lax3.da.uu.net) on: Sat Nov 13 00:03:55
  
  I have an uncle named Ganesan. He didn't remove any obstacles.
  Sanjay.
  
  
• From: . (@ ) on: Thu Oct 5 13:19:28
  
  http://www.mantraonnet.com/ganesh-nonmembers.html
  
  
• From: . (@ 129.81.216.123) on: Thu Oct 5 13:24:00 EDT 2000
  
  http://www.cix.co.uk/~ganesh/ganesha.htm
  
  
• From: sandy (@ 61.11.16.55) on: Tue Oct 17 07:40:46 EDT 2000
  
  Ganesha or the elephant headed God is supposed to be a tribal God worshipped in th einterior parts. His benovelence made him more popular than other dieties. I read this in the The Times of India last year during Ganesh festival.
  
  
• From: S.Varadarajan (@ ) on: Thu Feb 7 02:02:32
  
  Vathapi Ganapathy is very often heard. Want to know where this Vathapi is and how to reach. Desire to visit that place as early as possible.
  
  
• From: Mahadevan Ganapathy (@ host230.adviceamerica.com) on: Tue Feb 12 21:28:36
  
  Vatapi was a place in "Chalukya" kingdom under Pulikesi. Refer to Ponninin Selvan by Kalki. The commander of Narasihma Pallavan , one Paranjyothi defeated Pulikesi and bought that ganapathi from Vatapi and installed in Tamil Nadu somewhere. This Paramjyothi became a sanyasi (Nayanar) knows as Siru Thonda Nayanar
  
  
• From: pradheep Chhalliyil (@ ns1.genetic-id.com) on: Wed Feb 13 10:42:11
  
  Dear Sriram Lakshman,
  Thanks for the nice explanation. Infact all Hindu mythology explains complex fundamentals with simple stories. people think these are grandma stories or bed time stories. Well If any one is interested I can post an article explaining the science explained in mythology.
  
  

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