Topic started by Yashini (@ netcache1-ctn.is.co.za) on Sun Mar 16 11:57:08 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am interested in finding out the roots of Padyachees in SA, their history, caste, etc, can ne1 help?

Responses:

• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Sun Mar 16 15:30:25
  
  Padayachees are Vanniyars who are strong in some belts in Vellore, Cuddalore, Tiruchirappalli, Salem and Tanjavur districts. Vanniyars are called Padayachis, Gownders and Nayakars and by some other names in these districts.
  
  The Nayakas were one of the foremost rulers of Madurai and built the Tirumala Nayaka mandapam in the Madurai Meenakshi Amman Temple. The Nayakas encouraged Temple Building, sponsored Vedic rituals, arts and literature.
  
  
• From: TamilNattan (@ cvg-65-27-251-73.cinci.rr.com) on: Sun Mar 16 16:36:53
  
  Padaiyaachis and Vanniyars are the same. They speak Tamil. Naayakkars speak Telugu and they are not Padaiyaachi. KavuNdars (Gownders) sometimes say that they are from the Gowda caste of Karnataka. There are mainly 2 types of kavuNdars, veLLaLa kavuNdar, and Naattu kavuNdar. The vanniyars when they reach high social status they will call themselves 'Vanniya kavuNdar'. But generally kavuNdars think vanniyars are very inferior to them. The term 'kavuNdar' is added to lot of other castes to show a higher status, like 'vEttuva kavuNdar' for vEdarkaL (kavuNdarkaL). Thamizhagathil uLLa jaathi pirivukaL migavum kavalikkuRiya nilai aagum !
  
  
• From: TamilNattan (@ cvg-65-27-251-73.cinci.rr.com) on: Sun Mar 16 16:39:11
  
  Correction:
  
  >> vEdarkaL (kavuNdarkaL) <<
  
  vEdarkaL (hunters)
  
  
• From: R (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on: Mon Mar 17 13:09:05
  
  Vanniar too use the title Nayakar close to Madras, it confuses a lot of people. Nayakar, Gavundar and Padayachees are all titles used by many castes both Tamil or otherwise.
  
  But SA Padayachhes are in general Vanniar from Tamil Nadu. Vanniars make up the largest Tamil caste in North Tamil Nadu and are analogues to Mukulthor in South Tamil Nadu.
  
  About Kavunda, yes it is a Kannad title but anyone using it in Tamil nadu is not necessarily a Kannada origin. Velala Kavundar use it because Kongu region came under Mysore rule for a while so the Kannad titles became popular.
  
  
• From: TamilNattan (@ cvg-65-27-251-73.cinci.rr.com) on: Mon Mar 17 14:35:02
  
  I think 'Udaiyaar' caste in tamil (they may be Kuyavars), also say that they are related to the 'Wodeyars' in Karnataka (Jaya ChamarajEndra Woderyar). I did not know about 'Vanniyars' using 'Nayakkar' title. I think the other confusion is Mudhaliyaar. Lot of people use the caste name Mudhaliyaar. I have known Naavidhars using the name mudhaliyaar. Some people say Mudhaliyaar and piLLai are the same. Mudhaliyaars also use names like Sengundhar, and agamudaiyaar. The name piLLai itself is very confusing. There are SaivappiLLai, there are ThirunelvEli piLLais. I think some people use piLLai as just title of respect (not related to caste at all). Some people say veLLaaLar is piLLai. Are 'veLLaaLar', and 'vELaaLar' the same? There are may vELaaLars, like thuLuva vELaaLar, isai vaLartha vELaaLar, sOzhia vELaalar, kaar kaatha vELaaLar etc. Are they all piLLais? Are piLLi and mudhali the same people? Generally vELaaLars are tamil castes (they will not talk telugu, or kannadam in their home). VeLLaaLa kavundan is also called as veLLaaLan..
  
  
• From: R (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on: Mon Mar 17 16:13:24
  
  ¡§think 'Udaiyaar' caste in tamil (they may be Kuyavars), also say that they are related to the 'Wodeyars' in Karnataka (Jaya ChamarajEndra Woderyar).¡¨
  
  Udaiyar is simply title for a person with possession (udai ) of in this case land. Mysore region was once upon a time Tamil speaking and the Tribals in that region still speak Tribal languages which are closer to Tamil than kannda but starting in the 16th century Kannda speakers being pushed down by Muslims from the North populated it. They came all the way into Nilgiris and Badgas are one amongst them except Badagas have begun to speak in a language which is today considered to be independent of Kannda.
  
  ¡§I did not know about 'Vanniyars' using 'Nayakkar' title. I think the other confusion is Mudhaliyaar. Lot of people use the caste name Mudhaliyaar. I have known Naavidhars using the name mudhaliyaar. Some people say Mudhaliyaar and piLLai are the same.¡¨
  
  Again both are titles which used to be associated with land owning castes. We have Pillai as a last name in Kerala too.
  
  
  ¡§ Mudhaliyaars also use names like Sengundhar, and agamudaiyaar. ¡§
  
  Sengunthar and Agamudaiya are castes not titles, Agamudaiyar are part of the Mukulothor group which again used to provide soldiers in the past hence some othem will have padayachee title too.
  
  We have Mukkuva fishers in Sri lanka who use the title Padayachhe because they served as soldiers once upon time.
  
  Sengunthar are weavers but their name suggests that they carried lances in the past too.
  
  
  ¡§The name piLLai itself is very confusing. There are SaivappiLLai, there are ThirunelvEli piLLais. I think some people use piLLai as just title of respect (not related to caste at all). Some people say veLLaaLar is piLLai. ¡§
  
  You are right, it is title originally restricted to Saiva Vellal Pillais now everyone uses it including Karayarap Pillai in Tanjavoor area (fisher caste) and well as it is used extensively by most Sri lankan Tamil castes too.
  
  
  ¡§Are 'veLLaaLar', and 'vELaaLar' the same?¡¨
  
  Yes both are same but emphasis on a different syllable. That all.
  
  ¡§ There are may vELaaLars, like thuLuva vELaaLar, isai vaLartha vELaaLar, sOzhia vELaalar, kaar kaatha vELaaLar etc. Are they all piLLais?¡¨
  
  As Pillai is a title the better question is are they Vellalars ? I guess they are all Velalarļ
  
  ¡§Are piLLi and mudhali the same people? Generally vELaaLars are tamil castes (they will not talk telugu, or kannadam in their home). VeLLaaLa kavundan is also called as veLLaaLan..¡¨
  
  I have known Telugus calling them as Tondamandala Mudhaliar so anyone can call himself a Mudhaliar if you have money or land.
  
  
• From: tamilan-1 (@ startelcorp.com) on: Mon Mar 17 19:24:03
  
  Guys,
  
  While discussing caste, also discuss the fact that dravidians are divided amongst themselves. Please encourage inter-caste, inter-religious marriages in your kind posts!
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ law-b8.law.utexas.edu) on: Mon Jun 2 22:11:21
  
  First take caste out of christianity. see http://www.dalitchristians.com
  
  
• From: Suresh Babu (@ 203.193.149.229) on: Thu Jun 5 01:09:36 EDT 2003
  
  Padyachee is a subset of Vanniar caste. Padayachees are living in Thanjavur district of Tamil nadu in large number. In ancient days they
  were as soldiers of Chola king. The name padayachee is derived from 'Padai' means Army.
  
  
• From: Raja Chandra (@ ) on: Sun Apr 4 13:36:10
  
  It is uttelry stupid to say that Udaiyaar's are related to Wodeyars of Mysore. There is nothing historical to evenly remotely suggest such a conclusion. Just because both the names phonetically sound similar such a simplistic conclusion cannot be sustained.
  Wodeyars are chandravamshi kshatriya's originally hailing from the mythical dwaraka and the family tree traces back to the times of Lord Krishna and Pandavas.
  
  

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