ThirumUlar – Ancient Tamil Religion, Agamas, Vedas and Saiva SiththAntham

Topic started by Periyar Arivar (@ cache-rc05.proxy.aol.com) on Sun Mar 23 21:07:36 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The purpose of this thread is to highlight the differences between Agamas and Vedas. I would like to discuss the topic by providing responses to the Vedic fanatics who are determined to destroy the original religion of South Asia. I believe it is the responsibility of Non-Vedic Agama and non-Agama worshippers to stand up against the threat unleashed by Vedantis and their agents. The Hindutuva movement is a threat not only to Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists, but also to Non-Vedic Hindus.

Agamas describe the Dravidian religious practices and philosophies, whereas the first three Vedas deal primarily with Aryan religious practices. I request everyone to ignore the Aryan/ Dravidian definition used in South Asia. A mere observation of South Asians indicate that 80 to 85 percent of the population is of Dravidian (local people) origin.

The following is from Karuvayan under Tirumular on the Vedas and Saiva Siddhantam thread:

Mon Mar 17 16:12:41 .

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"The Veda with the Agama is the truth; they are the word of the Lord: these revelations of the Lord are to be studied as the general and the special doctrines; on enquiry they are taken to be different as giving rise to two different sets of conclusions: but to the great ones they are non different."


What ThiruMular states is not Veda with Agama, but Veda and Agama. Veda and Agama are two independent religious doctrines and one does not need the other for survival.

Karuvayan’s interpretation implies that Agama and Veda require each other. It is he who claimed in this forum that Agamas are an integral part of Vedas.

Let me give you the translation of the above:

2397 Veda and Agama Alike Revealed by God

Veda and Agama alike
Are revelations of God,
That is Truth;
The one is general
The other special;
Their goals two, they say;
Search them both,
For the truly learned,
There is difference none.


Let me provide the forum participants the reasoning behind ThirumUlar comparing Agamas with Vedas. ThirmUlar is a Dalit Dravidian, and he is of Kashmir origin. He came to Tamizakam to promote Agama Saivaism. Althogh Vedas were composed due to synthesis of Aryan and Dravidian religious practices, Vedic Brahmins did not recognize Agamas. It holds true for orthodox Vedic Brahmins even today. This is the reason why ThrumUar composed the above stanza.


Had ThirumUlar been alive today, after witnessing the hatred and venom emitted by KaruvAyan on religious minorities, he would have composed the following:

Agamas, Bible, Koran, Vedas
And other religious scriptures
Are revelations of God
That is Truth;
Their goals are different, they say;
Search them all,
For the truly learned,
No difference exists.


In Thirumanthiram, ThrumUlar discusses about Vedanta and SiththAntham. Here, Vedanta is the Vedic philosophy developed in Upanishad. The modern day Vedanta philosophies were developed during a period of 300 to 800 years after Thirumanthiram.
Similarly, SiththAntha philosophy was also refined and enhanced by MeikaNdAr about 600 years after Thirumanthiram. Please note that Thirumanthiram is part of ThirumuRaikaL and it is not one of the philosophical texts of Saiva SiththAntham.

Saiva SiththAntham includes the following:

14 Saiva SiththAntha Philosophical Texts (Tamil)
Saiva ThirumuRaikaL (Tamil)
28 Saiva Agamas (Sanskrit and Tamil*)

*Tamil version is lost and it is time to reintroduce Tamil in Agama temples.

Anything not listed above is not part of Saiva SiththAntham. i.e. Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabharatha, Kama Sutra, Manu Shastra, Bhagaavad Gita and all other Vedic related materials.

Tamil Saivam includes both Agama and non-Agama religious practices. Agama worship is performed on the following deities: Siva, Murugan, Sakti, PiLLaiyar and ThirumAL. Ancient Tamil religious (Non-Agama) practice is performed in KaNNaki, mAri amman, KALI, aiyanAr, vairavar, Naga, and certain Siva and Murugan temples.

It is the responsibility of Tamil Saivaites to protect both Agama and Non-Agama temples. Vedic Hinduism is alien to Tamil culture.

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