Topic started by Hemant (@ 63.109.250.137) on Fri Dec 22 00:41:53 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Some time back, I had remarked that I want to raise a nagging question of origins of Marwadi community of marwar Rajasthan.
Like the Vanias of Gujarat, who according to my belief have their roots in Dravid land, There is another community in Rajasthan Who are Marwaris , have their roots in MARWAR community of Tamilnadu.
When Jainism was at its peak, two communities who converted to Jainism were Vanniars and Marwars.They migrated to Gujarat and Rajasthan.
Vanniars were essentially a sea farers and traders, so were the Marwars.
But both would not see eye to eye in Compitition.More over marwars were also having differences of Sthankvasi and Murti pujaks in ancient times.
I know that there is a firm belief that the word Marwari comes from Marwad.But word Marwad itself comes from Marwars of Tamil nadu.
I know that this posting may draw a lot of heated debate.But I am resolute in my belief.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Hemant (@ 63.109.250.137) on: Wed Dec 27 00:04:34 EST 2000
  
  Mani I like your tenacity.It is probable that the word Vania may be a derivative of Vanika.But Sanskrit was devised in present form by Panini who is reported to have been a South Indian Pandit.The word Vanik itself might havre come from Vannia kkaran , incidently vanniars were traders during Jain period in Tamil Nadu.There is no word like Vanik in ancient sanskrit of Vedic times.The earliest mention in Varnashram is Vaishya and not Vanik or Vania.
  Do you know that there is a caste in Telugu called Vannia Kula Chetty?
  Sheth in Gujarati is an Apabhransha of Shreshthy, Chetty as they were known in South.
  Parekhs surname comes from Parkkaravan meaning a person who sees.These are people who are specialists in evaluating Precious stones.
  There is another surname which is PARIKH which could have come from Tamil word Parikkaravan.Meaning one who sorts and seperates.
  This is again connected to Precious stones sorting.
  There might be many more things which need to be explored.
  SIMILARITIES CANNOT ALWAYS BE ACCIDENTAL!!!!!!!
  
  
• From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ hybrid-024-221-181-057.ca.sprintbbd.net) on: Wed Dec 27 00:40:50 EST 2000
  
  Hemant,
  
  Where did you see reports that pANini was a "South Indian Pandit"? According to these reports, when and where did pANini live?
  
  While it is probable that vAnika may have come from a Tamil root, it is almost certain that vanniyan is unrelated to vAnikan. There are no records of vanniyar community being engaged in any trade in the time period that you are talking about, let alone trade that would have taken them to Gujarat in ships.
  
  Are you sure the Telugu chettis are are called vanniya kula chetti and not vAniya kula chettis?
  
  Your speculation that parikh and parekhs may have come from "pArkkaravan" and "parikkaravan" (you probably meant porukkubavan, one who sorts and separates), are again on very thin ground, particularly since there are no communities with similar names in the Tamil country. You are quite imaginative but if you look hard enough you can find some such similarities between any two random languages in the world. To do this properly, one needs to apply the rules of linguistics. Besides, there is no historical evidence of reverse migration to support any of these speculations. That is not to say that it is impossible, but it is still improbable.
  
  
• From: L.SENTHIL (@ 202.9.161.110) on: Thu Jan 18 03:09:49 EST 2001
  
  I think the discussion has deviated from the main topic. Hemant may be correct in calling marvaris having their roots in tamilnadu. Maybe a segment of marwaris have their roots in TN. But even before that marwaris existed.
  Regarding the vanniars, a group of them may have gone to gujarat or rajasthan but we cant say that vanniars are marwaris or jains or they changed their religions.
  regarding the word vanniar, vaanikar is trade but the 'n' in vanniar and vannikar is different. the 'n' in vanniar means muradu ie. tough or hard. vanniars are not sea farers or traders they were farmers who are 'hard' workers. traders or business people are great thinkers but not hard workers.
  In tamilnadu vanniars are in backward class list and presently they are trying to come into the list of most backward class.
  If they had the roots as traders they would have been in the forward caste listing - according to the G.O of tamilnadu. (to be continued).
  
  
• From: kavi (@ suraksha.wipsys.soft.net) on: Thu Jan 18 04:53:03 EST 2001
  
  Hi,
  The "kiLai" system is follwed by maravars and some
  group of yadhavs in Tamil nadu as like as the "kUttam"s of konku veLLalars.These two systems are entirely different. Maravar's "kiLai" is a maternal one but konku's ia a paternal one.
  In maravar community,the marriage should not be held inbetween the same "kiLai"s. The childrens are having their mother's "kiLai".This system is not followed by any of the Tamil communities.But
  this "kiLai" system is very similar to the north indian's. So I can come to a conclusion that Maravars immigrated from North as like pallavas.
  karpaga vinayagam.
  
  
• From: Hemant (@ 202.144.107.4) on: Thu Jan 18 10:15:55 EST 2001
  
  Senthil and Kavi,
  When Jains came to Tamilnadu, who converted to Jainism?
  It must be the poor lot of jathis like Vanniars, Marvars and likes of them.These people followed after their masters.
  Jainism taught them not only to read and write, but also taught them to be traders.Because trading was the only activity which did not involve Himsai.These simple people became Vanikas.
  These are the people who had guts to trade with Egypt, Greece and Rome.
  
  Kavi, I must thank you for a very fine piece of information about marvars and KiLai system.
  
  
• From: Sujata (@ 24.69.170.174.on.wave.home.com) on: Thu Jan 18 18:48:29 EST 2001
  
  Are maravars and thevars one and the same? Thevars also have the same Kilai system.
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Thu Jan 18 19:59:30 EST 2001
  
  Hemant wrote
  
  "When Jains came to Tamilnadu, who converted to Jainism? "
  
  The Jains converted the elites first then went after the middle strata and eventually to the lower. Jaina/Buddhist power vested in the hands of the rulers. If the rulers were not coapted then the Jains could not survive as it was proved in the whole of India later. Thus all religions (not just Jainism) need political legitimacy through intimacy with rulers to survive. Thus we have state religions in Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc..
  
  
• From: kavi (@ 203.197.141.34) on: Sun Jan 21 22:06:50
  
  
  Sujatha,
  Thevar is a word followed by their names.
  maravar is the caste name.
  (similar thing: kOnAr is a word followed by their names.But Idaiyar is the caste name)
  So Thevar=Maravar.In south the educated people called maravars as M R ,Nadars as N R and Dalith as S C. I read manusmirithi.In this smirithi,a similar one of KiLai system (called as koththiram)
  is mentioned.If somebody violates,it is a big sin,according to manu.i.e.,Anybody marries a same kothRa's bride/groom.
  In south TamilNadu one custom known as "sEnai vaiththal" is existing.After one week or one month of a child birth,an older man/woman or educated person from the child's relative drop a liquid of "karuppatti"
  Thro a pen nip to the tongue of the fresh child is called as sEnai vaiththal.In earlier days,instead of pen, 'EzuththANi" was used. The people believe that the good and bad characters of the oler/elite person who dropped sEnai will be transformed to that child.In all communities only "karuppattich chARu" is used in sEnai.But in maRavar community,instead of karuppatti ,country made liquir "nAttu sArAyam" is used.
  What is the reason behind this distinguised custom? Can anybody explain this?
  Karpagavinayagam
  
  
• From: Mahavir Sanglikar (@ ) on: Sun Mar 4 10:26:30
  
  But i have read that the marwaries are Sythian. Then how can they be from south India?
  Mahavir
  
  
• From: Raj (@ proxy1-external.stcla1.sfba.home.com) on: Sun Mar 4 14:52:44
  
  LOL, you look at an average gujurathi and tell me if they look scythian to you. They look like south indians, if they ever were scythians which I doubt, they must have heavily intermarried with so called dravidians.
  
  
• From: J.Rajan (@ 194.165.193.214) on: Mon Mar 5 06:40:37
  
  Hi All,
  
  Some Palestinians and Syrians have a family name "Marwan". Did they also came from the Tamil tribe Maravar?
  
  
• From: Tiger Thaner (@ webcachem06b.cache.pol.co.uk) on: Sat Jun 30 15:47:47
  
  Maravar padaithan Pulipadai
  avar velvar enpathu adipadai!!!
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: jacobs manasseh (@ cache92.156ce.scvmaxonline.com.sg) on: Sat Sep 7 11:23:11
  
  I am from Singapore an Indian,this is what I knew after watching a movie on a flight to Melbourne.This movie is about Aborginese of Australia,An English man marrying an Ab.and after 5 generation,ie continuing marrying a white the of spring will be white.This is what the early settlers ,the whites wanted in Australia by separating their children.So here in India after many generation,We can just imagine the result.
  
  
• From: jacobs manasseh (@ cache92.156ce.scvmaxonline.com.sg) on: Sat Sep 7 11:23:22
  
  I am from Singapore an Indian,this is what I knew after watching a movie on a flight to Melbourne.This movie is about Aborginese of Australia,An English man marrying an Ab.and after 5 generation,ie continuing marrying a white the of spring will be white.This is what the early settlers ,the whites wanted in Australia by separating their children.So here in India after many generation,We can just imagine the result.
  
  
• From: vasan (@ 61.1.209.65) on: Thu Sep 12 02:15:15
  
  Marwaris are the descendants of schythians and it is absurd to say that they are having roots in Tamilnadu. Vanniyars are purely Dravidians. If Marwaris have their root in Tamilnadu they why not Tamils have their root in Indus valley?
  
  
• From: visu (@ lonax8-b078.dialup.optusnet.com.au) on: Mon Jan 3 09:08:49
  
  I hate marwari boys . Pan eating pigs.
  But marwari girls are quiet soft and homely.
  
  
• From: naresh (@ dsl-tn-233.34.101.203.touchtelindia.net) on: Mon Jan 3 18:13:52 EST 2005
  
  Most of Tamilians in Tamilnadu run after marwari girls, they get nothing. Even these sexually starved community try hard to get companionship with a north indian girl for few minutes , but sheer failure. Poor visu get a life ....You would never stand close to marwari girls, it would always be your distant dreams. Keep on praying your dear idol at kusbu temple or all your black devil looking girls.
  
  
• From: marvadi dick (@ www.centerforappliedbiomechanics.org) on: Wed Jan 12 12:56:40 EST 2005
  
  fuk of u marvadi u eat some paratha and some porato curry.
  U all stink.
  Ur gals are all fat boilers.
  No one runs behind ur gals.
  Arseholes get out of tamil nadu
  
  
• From: ranga (@ 68.120.181.17) on: Wed Jan 12 15:40:10 EST 2005
  
  I thought Tamilians are good for fighting only with Kannadas and Srilanka, but here I see something new. they have obsession to fight with marwaris also who control tamilnadu's economy
  
  
• From: marvadi dick (@ d-128-193-143.bootp.virginia.edu) on: Wed Jan 12 17:23:21 EST 2005
  
  ;-))
  Well im seeing something new.
  whos controlling whos economy? hmm
  
  
• From: ranga (@ 68.120.181.17) on: Thu Jan 13 04:04:09 EST 2005
  
  Loongi style fight with brahmins is also a great fight in tamil culture.Hope they don't come to hydrabad and fight with us. We will bash on their nose and will start bleeing from both the ends.....
  Loongi masters...... street fighters in their own street....!@!@!@#!##$
  
  
  
• From: pillai (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Sat Jan 22 07:05:02 EST 2005
  
  Jains in T.N was always Jain Vellalas and allied Jain Chetties
  
  
• From: pillai (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Sat Jan 22 07:05:06 EST 2005
  
  Jains in T.N was always Jain Vellalas and allied Jain Chetties
  
  
• From: pillai (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Sat Jan 22 07:05:21 EST 2005
  
  Jains in T.N was always Jain Vellalas and allied Jain Chetties
  
  
• From: ramasani (@ va-69-68-126-5.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) on: Sat Jan 22 11:35:51 EST 2005
  
  hehe telugus.
  we tamils have a good (better) name with north indians compared to u telugus
  telugus suck, drink sambar and fart
  
  

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