Topic started by Raveen (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on Tue Sep 17 10:27:13 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Nothing definite is known about the origin of Dravidian languages. Are they just native to India? In recent years, a hypothesis has been gaining ground that Dravidian speakers have probably moved from north-west to the South of Indian peninsula, a movement originating possibly as far as Central Asia. There is also general agreement that the language of Indus Valley Civilization looks like Dravidian. The presence of a Dravidian language called Brahui, isolated in Pakistan, spoken by 750,000, probably remnant of the Indus people, supports this theory.

The Dravidian languages have remained an isolated family to the present day and have defied all of the attempts to show a connection with the Indo- European tongues, Basque, Sumerian or Korean! "The most promising and plausible hypothesis is that of a linguistic relationship with the Uralic (Hungarian and Finnish) and Altaic (Turkish, Mongol) languages groups". [Encyclopędia Britannica Vol 22, Page 715 1989 Edition]. In our essay we attempt to elaborate this theory with some striking comparisons.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4737/dravid1.html

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Venki (@ proxyle02.ext.ti.com) on: Fri Oct 18 12:10:58
  
  Raveen,
  
  That is a cop out. You started this thread with reference to the above link. That link has less than 20 words showing similarities between Malayalam and Finnish (we can show more number of words between Tamil and Japanese or even Tamil and English) for vocabulary comparison and for grammatical similarities it picks just two. One is the suffix for what would be prepositions in English and noun compounding, both of which are present in North Indian languages as well.
  
  Eg: suffix agglutination for prepositions in English.
  
  En veettil (Tamil)
  Meray gharmay (Hindi)
  Minun kotissa (Finnish)
  In my Home (English)
  
  similarly,
  
  En veettukku (Tamil)
  Meray gharko (Hindi)
  Minun kotiin (Finnish)
  To my Home (English)
  
  similarly,
  
  En veettilirundu (Tamil)
  Meray gharsay (Hindi)
  Minun kotista (Finnish)
  From my Home (English)
  
  The noun compounding example given also applies to North Indian languages, which are no different from Tamil, Malayalam or Finnish in this respect. So the proof is pretty weak in the above link.
  
  Where are "circular arguments that go nowhere"? Why do you think giving proof for bold assertions like "I think we can discard the Indian origin of Dravidian languages" a "waste of emotional energy and valubale time in defending arguments."?
  
  When something is proposed contrary to the prevalent known history of a language family like Dravidian, the burden of proof is on the one making the assertions.
  
  We can agree to disagree on various hypotheses, but no theory should be propagated as the truth, especially one that involves pre-history - at least anything that predates the known recorded version of history. Spoken languages have been around for at least 50,000 years and the written languages have been existent for the last 5000 years according to present theories. Our known histories go back no more than 3000years until we decode the Indus script, so speculation earlier to that should remain hypotheses until firm (as firm as one can get regarding pre-history) proof is established. As for speculations the more the merrier, but they will be weeded out if they don't stand to scrutiny.
  
  Newbie,
  
  If you are a linguist please post your ideas, views and your research and I would be interested in them.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: :) Punnahai (@ d150-35-51.home.cgocable.net) on: Fri Oct 18 13:00:42
  
  Venki:
  
  Earlier you asked
  
  >>Does it have anything to do with the bias of the researchers most of whom are European?<<
  
  Should we be in Arandavan kannukku Irundadhellam Pei mode all the time. The same Europeans also say that humanity originated in Africa.
  
  In any case, I find the link between Hungarian/Finnish/Basque/Dravidian languages very interesting. I had seen one site a couple of years ago which listed Hungarian and Malayalam and there were a lot of similarities. Let's first establish if there are any links between these languages and then figure out whether the link is out of India or into India.
  
  
• From: newbie (@ sapper.saptech.com) on: Fri Oct 18 17:46:04
  
  Venki: When someone adopts an attitude like -"Common newbie, you are not seriously suggesting that linguistics is a science," it's time to move on. Let's argue on substance.
  
  In any case, Punnahai, you're asking to establish links between these languages and then to figure out whether the link is out of India or into India.
  
  First, Venki notwithstanding, these languages have already been connected as belonging to one family. That in itself is very significant. And links between a few languages have been established as closer than others. More work needs to be done to figure out which language branched off when from the putative mother.
  
  For the second part of your question, I'm more inclined to the "into India" theory and eastern drift and "civilization establishment a posteriori". In any case, the geographical line that connects the Agglutinative group runs as far north Lapland (Sami) and to the East as far as it gets (Korea, Japan).
  
  In many cases (not just in India), the work of researchers has been impeded by local cultural bias and lack of awareness. In many cases the parallels are quite striking. Lack of language skills hurts and understandable since these are spread across a wide spectrum.
  
  Here's Hamori's look at Hungarian and Dravidian.
  http://www2.4dcomm.com/millenia/dravdict.html
  
  
  In India, what generally happens is that, casuistry and non-Linguistic arguments are adduced to support lay articles arguing against "biased Western attempts" to reinterpret Indian history. Some have resorted even to "hoaxes" to support their version of the "truth." These tend to get wide circulation among our half-baked and end up swamping legitimate attempts to understand our complex beginnings.
  
  The thesis can be very simple: India shows a bank of Dravidian languages and a bank of IE languages in juxtaposition and intertwined. How did this happen? Behind that is a complex history with cultural implications. Unraveling that should be in the interest of every Indian. It's unfortunately not that way. It goes beyond healthy scientific skepticism.
  
  
• From: Murali (@ a7.fluent.co.in) on: Thu Nov 25 04:27:39
  
  Is it true that Indus valley civilization was developed by Indo-Afghans and not be Dravidians as this link provide? http://www.svabhinava.org/AITvsOIT/Sergent-AfroDravidian-frame.htm
  
  
• From: davie (@ manager) on: Thu Nov 25 05:40:07 EST 2004
  
  sanskrit itself is a indian/drav language. our language specialist will address this issue soon
  
  
• From: davie (@ ecclap3) on: Thu Nov 25 05:41:43 EST 2004
  
  hey nedun
  u told us that sanskrit is related to thamiz and thamiz related to sanskrit. the title of this forum says that there is no relation betwen all these languages?
  whyda hell these idiots follow some bulshit websites that give crapy info
  
  
• From: davie (@ ecclap15) on: Thu Nov 25 21:41:55 EST 2004
  
  LET ME POST MY DAMN GOOD IDEA
  in ancient india all people (anyone and everyone) were able to become brahmins.
  SO EVEN NOW, BRAHMINISM OR PREACHING OR DOIG PRAYERS MUST BE OPEN FOR ALL COMMONPEOPLE. WHO EVER KNOWS SANSKRIT OR WHO IS INTERESTED INDOING PRAYERS must be allowed TO BECOME A BRAHMIN PRIEST. atleast jobless people will get jobs
  GUYS YOUR VIEWS ARE WELCOME
  I dont mind keeping some admission exams to become a temple poojari or to be a priest for mariages etc. the government can give salary.
  i mean we can make it similar to a government job
  
  

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