History is not History, It is politics and self motivated facts !
Topic started by fact (@ 219.65.97.152) on Fri Oct 10 09:28:21 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Title: Putting history in proper context
Author: Virendra Parekh
Publication: The Observer Of Business And Politics
Date: February 25, 2000
One thing is common to mullahs, missionaries and Marxists. Whenever they are given a dose of their own medicine, they call it a foul play. No wonder, the secularist lobby dominated by their friends is incensed. The decision of the Indian Council of Historical Research to withdraw from publication two volumes, penned by Marxist historians K. N. Panikkar and Sumit Sarkar, pertaining to the freedom struggle has incurred its wrath. ICHR chairman B R Grover has clarified that the withdrawal is only temporary and meant to check the manuscripts for possible inaccuracies and omissions. He has pointed out that ICHR has in the past withdrawn volumes, even after their publication, for similar reasons.
This has not pacified the secularist lobby. It has wasted no time in condemning this ‘hard evidence of a deep-seated conspiracy to saffronise Indian history’. The eminent historians who wrote the books concerned feel slighted. Striking a pose of outraged innocence, secularist newspapers have sermonised the government on the dangers of tempering with history writing.
What is most remarkable about the present controversy is the deliberate and total obliteration of the context. The boot is on the other foot. Stalinist activists, masquerading as historians, have deliberately and systematically distorted our history to fit it into Marxist categories. Now when an attempt is being made to expose their manipulation and falsification, we hear lectures on importance of objectivity and dangers of state control in history writing.
Striking a pose of superiority is the hallmark of this brand of historians. It is below their dignity to discuss issues on merit. Aryan invasion theory, for example, has been beaten hollow by incontrovertible evidence marshalled by scholars like K D Sethna, Srikant Talageri, David Frawley, A Seidenberg and Navaratna Rajaram among others. The new evidence collected by these scholars pertain to literature, archaeology, anthropology, astronomy, metallurgy and mathematics. It explains all the known facts much better. It points to the movement of Aryans from India to other countries, standing the invasion theory on its head.
The response of Marxist historians to these new developments is either pointed indifference or derision. “The latest entrants into the field (of history) are Indian scientists from the US, who in the guise of using science and computers are now holding forth on the Aryan problem. They are neither willing to acknowledge that they know little about archaeology, history or linguistics, nor are they willing to work with such specialists”, wrote Romila Thapar. Notice the arrogance, notice the disdain for scientific methods, notice the derailment of issue by personalising it.
If looking at evidence presented by others is below their dignity for Marxist historians, supplying evidence in support of their own assertions is even more so. On 2 October 1986, twelve Marxist historians, led by Romila Thapar, wrote a letter to the Times of India. They noted “with growing concern the recent tendency in Tol to give a communal twist to news items”. “The statement in your news report that the site at Mathura is to be ‘liberated’ and handed over to the ‘rightful owners’ as the birthplace of Krishna raises the question of limits to logic of restoration of religious sites... How far back do we go? Can we push this to the restoration of Buddhist and Jain monuments destroyed by Hindus? Or pre-Hindu animist shrines?” wrote their eminences.
The indefatigable Site Ram Goal prepared a questionnaire for these historians and sent It to Romila Thapar. He requested them to produce, among other things, a list of epigraphs and citations from Hindu literary sources which record the destruction of Buddhist and Jain monuments and animist shrines by any Hindu, at any time: the Hindu theology that says or even suggests that non-Hindu places of worship should he destroyed, desecrated or plundered or which hails such acts as pious or meritorious: a list of Buddhist or Jain monuments and animist shrines which have been desecrated or destroyed or converted into Hindu places of worship in the remote or recent past: the names and places of Hindu monuments which stand on sites earlier occupied by Buddhist or Jain monuments and animist shrines and a list of Hindu kings or commanders whom Hindus have hailed as heroes for desecrating or destroying or converting into Hindu places of worship any Buddhist or Jain monuments or animist shrines.
However, he did not receive even an acknowledgement from her, leave alone any comments from the points raised In his letter. This was true to their form. Anyone who has audacity to demand proof from their eminences is disqualified by that very act to receive any attention from them.
Even when concrete evidence of their lies, distortions and prejudices is documented in detail and pushed under their nose, their response Is contemptuous (and contemptible) silence or a shower of abuse. Arun Shourie has narrated at length what they have done to history textbooks. The charges were specific, not vague or general. The name of the author, the title of the book and page numbers were quoted in every case. Shourie also gave concrete examples of their financial irregularities, irresponsible behaviour and malpractices like theft of manuscripts with a view to plagiarising them. His condemnation of their eminences was, in a word, total. What was the response? “Arun Shourie is not a historian. He is a mythologist of Hindu communalism. He is a political pornographer,” declared K N Panikkar. Not one word about the issues raised.
This is the kind of people who are insisting that whatever they write must be accepted as gospel, that to check their works for inaccuracies and omissions is an insult, that to question their presentation and interpretation of history is nothing short of its falsification.
The question is: Having brazened it out so far, why are they restless now? Answer: Because they can see that the party will soon be over unless they put up a fight. They could perpetrate and perpetuate their mischief so long as their ideology was fashionable, rulers were benevolent and their fellow-travellers controlled most of the important positions in universities and journalism.
But times have changed. Intellectual fashions are changing, patronage of rulers is vanishing and their Holy Books have become raddy-pasti. All that remains, or remained until recently, is their hold on government institutions and the vast network of fellow travellers, the former being the key to the latter. The recent appointments to ICHR of independent historians and the move to restore accountability In its functioning have sent shivers down their spines. No longer will it be possible for them to drag on projects for decades, fatten themselves on public funds and dispense patronage to cronies. India’s history establishment has long been controlled by people who are better at politicising issues than historical research. No true history of India can be written unless their influence is countered.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com)
on: Mon Nov 3 04:17:08 EST 2003
jk (@ 61.1.200.127
Ninte ammade pooriye pootivai!
- From: ? (@ ppp-219.65.97.124.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Mon Nov 3 10:11:00 EST 2003
Ninte ammade pooriye pootivai!
Karthi's father name seems to be quite interesting and long...
- From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com)
on: Mon Nov 3 20:31:58 EST 2003
That is your fathers' name. Your mother told me last night!
- From: saviour (@ 61.11.76.255)
on: Tue Nov 4 13:19:58 EST 2003
CALL FOR WORLDWIDE PRAYER FOR INDIA AS DALITS PREPARE TO EMBRACE OTHER FAITHS
By Dr. Joseph DSouza, president of the All India Christian Council
30th June 2001
Christians around the world have prayed for God's richest blessings on India. India, a nation of one billion people stands for many cultures, peoples, overwhelming need, progress and challenges. India in 2001 also faces huge social and religious churning and an unpredictable future with the rise of extremist Hindu forces who have risen to govern the country with a fascist ideology.
The recruitment and warfare training of one million young people by the extremist Hindu group Bajrang Dal in recent months under the benign eyes of the present Central government is a chilling evil development. The strident call for the rebuilding of the temple in Ayodhya in the place of the mosque by March 2002 will cause the nation to be once again bruised physically, socially and psychologically. A whole generation of politicians without convictions or ideology has left the nation without a credible leadership. There is no Mahatma Gandhi or a Jawaharlal Nehru to lead the nation through its hour of crisis.
In the midst of all this, the Dalit population of India (250 million people) has decided to look for liberation and dignity in other faiths and communities. On October 14th, Ram Rajya with his leaders of the Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes federation comprising of the educated and employed sector of Dalits in government, will en masse turn to Buddhism in a public ceremony in Delhi. A million people are expected to come for this critical event of liberation. Those who do not want to become Buddhist are being encouraged to embrace other faiths as a way out of caste oppression and spiritual liberation.
The news from around India is that Dalits also plan to move to the Christian faith. The Indian church is therefore presented with a challenge of enormous proportions. It will either stand or fall by the stand it takes during the coming months. If the Church is true to Christ and His message it will have to accept all those who turn to the Christian faith. The Church will need to evolve a method and ministry of discipling and developing all those who come into the Christian community.
The Church will also have to support the larger move of the Dalits because it represents freedom of choice. The Church has vigorously fought for this during the last few years through the All India Christian Council and other alliances, and now will have to respect and support whatever choices the Dalits make. Their choice is a deep cry for human dignity, equality and liberation.
The supportive stand of the Christian Church will be a fitting reply to the extremists who have lied about the Church with regards to forcible and fraudulent conversions. The Church has always argued for the right of freedom of conscience and choice for every Indian. And the choice of the Dalits is a free choice and not because of any coercion or manipulation.
It is also the hour for the Indian Church to once for all rid itself of the Caste system in some sections of the Church. Only Caste free Indian Churches will be relevant to the India of this new millennium. This will mean a firm determination to encourage and allow for intercaste marriages within the Church, giving many more opportunities for the Dalits and the other Backward Caste Christians for leadership in the Indian Church. It will also mean a firm resolve to work for the economic and educational development of these people for whom Jesus died. Thank God, for the efforts Indian Churches have put in all these areas in the past decades.
India needs worldwide prayer for the following:
Peace among communities in the midst of tumultuous changes. It is difficult to imagine how the Hindu extremists will respond to this. May they see the aspirations and cries of a people who are looking for social and spiritual deliverance. May they not resort to violence and the killing of innocent people.
Pray for the Dalit leadership in the nation and the leaders of the Other Backward Castes, as their people look to them to provide support and strength during this time of change. The Dalits and OBC's together make up 75% of the Indian population.
Pray for the political leadership in the nation. May they look beyond politics to the social and spiritual desires of the people they represent.
Pray for the Indian Church. Pray there will be no compromise by any section of the Church. Pray that the hearts of the Indian Church leaders will be big and courageous to welcome all those who want to come to the Christian faith for the spiritual and social needs. Pray also for much wisdom.
Pray for the rule of law to be established against all those who are engaging in violence and are arming themselves for civil conflict.
Pray for the social needs of India's majority peoples especially their need for quality education.
Pray for all those Christian leaders who are thrown into the midst of these tumultuous changes. Pray for wisdom, compassion and courage.
Immediately join in to receive this monthly call for worldwide prayer for the Indian nation.
Yours sincerely,
Dr. Joseph Dsouza
On behalf of the 2,000 denominations and groups represented in the All India Christian Council
- From: saviour (@ 61.11.76.255)
on: Tue Nov 4 13:20:07 EST 2003
CALL FOR WORLDWIDE PRAYER FOR INDIA AS DALITS PREPARE TO EMBRACE OTHER FAITHS
By Dr. Joseph DSouza, president of the All India Christian Council
30th June 2001
Christians around the world have prayed for God's richest blessings on India. India, a nation of one billion people stands for many cultures, peoples, overwhelming need, progress and challenges. India in 2001 also faces huge social and religious churning and an unpredictable future with the rise of extremist Hindu forces who have risen to govern the country with a fascist ideology.
The recruitment and warfare training of one million young people by the extremist Hindu group Bajrang Dal in recent months under the benign eyes of the present Central government is a chilling evil development. The strident call for the rebuilding of the temple in Ayodhya in the place of the mosque by March 2002 will cause the nation to be once again bruised physically, socially and psychologically. A whole generation of politicians without convictions or ideology has left the nation without a credible leadership. There is no Mahatma Gandhi or a Jawaharlal Nehru to lead the nation through its hour of crisis.
In the midst of all this, the Dalit population of India (250 million people) has decided to look for liberation and dignity in other faiths and communities. On October 14th, Ram Rajya with his leaders of the Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes federation comprising of the educated and employed sector of Dalits in government, will en masse turn to Buddhism in a public ceremony in Delhi. A million people are expected to come for this critical event of liberation. Those who do not want to become Buddhist are being encouraged to embrace other faiths as a way out of caste oppression and spiritual liberation.
The news from around India is that Dalits also plan to move to the Christian faith. The Indian church is therefore presented with a challenge of enormous proportions. It will either stand or fall by the stand it takes during the coming months. If the Church is true to Christ and His message it will have to accept all those who turn to the Christian faith. The Church will need to evolve a method and ministry of discipling and developing all those who come into the Christian community.
The Church will also have to support the larger move of the Dalits because it represents freedom of choice. The Church has vigorously fought for this during the last few years through the All India Christian Council and other alliances, and now will have to respect and support whatever choices the Dalits make. Their choice is a deep cry for human dignity, equality and liberation.
The supportive stand of the Christian Church will be a fitting reply to the extremists who have lied about the Church with regards to forcible and fraudulent conversions. The Church has always argued for the right of freedom of conscience and choice for every Indian. And the choice of the Dalits is a free choice and not because of any coercion or manipulation.
It is also the hour for the Indian Church to once for all rid itself of the Caste system in some sections of the Church. Only Caste free Indian Churches will be relevant to the India of this new millennium. This will mean a firm determination to encourage and allow for intercaste marriages within the Church, giving many more opportunities for the Dalits and the other Backward Caste Christians for leadership in the Indian Church. It will also mean a firm resolve to work for the economic and educational development of these people for whom Jesus died. Thank God, for the efforts Indian Churches have put in all these areas in the past decades.
India needs worldwide prayer for the following:
Peace among communities in the midst of tumultuous changes. It is difficult to imagine how the Hindu extremists will respond to this. May they see the aspirations and cries of a people who are looking for social and spiritual deliverance. May they not resort to violence and the killing of innocent people.
Pray for the Dalit leadership in the nation and the leaders of the Other Backward Castes, as their people look to them to provide support and strength during this time of change. The Dalits and OBC's together make up 75% of the Indian population.
Pray for the political leadership in the nation. May they look beyond politics to the social and spiritual desires of the people they represent.
Pray for the Indian Church. Pray there will be no compromise by any section of the Church. Pray that the hearts of the Indian Church leaders will be big and courageous to welcome all those who want to come to the Christian faith for the spiritual and social needs. Pray also for much wisdom.
Pray for the rule of law to be established against all those who are engaging in violence and are arming themselves for civil conflict.
Pray for the social needs of India's majority peoples especially their need for quality education.
Pray for all those Christian leaders who are thrown into the midst of these tumultuous changes. Pray for wisdom, compassion and courage.
Immediately join in to receive this monthly call for worldwide prayer for the Indian nation.
Yours sincerely,
Dr. Joseph Dsouza
On behalf of the 2,000 denominations and groups represented in the All India Christian Council
- From: saviour (@ 61.11.76.255)
on: Tue Nov 4 13:20:17 EST 2003
CALL FOR WORLDWIDE PRAYER FOR INDIA AS DALITS PREPARE TO EMBRACE OTHER FAITHS
By Dr. Joseph DSouza, president of the All India Christian Council
30th June 2001
Christians around the world have prayed for God's richest blessings on India. India, a nation of one billion people stands for many cultures, peoples, overwhelming need, progress and challenges. India in 2001 also faces huge social and religious churning and an unpredictable future with the rise of extremist Hindu forces who have risen to govern the country with a fascist ideology.
The recruitment and warfare training of one million young people by the extremist Hindu group Bajrang Dal in recent months under the benign eyes of the present Central government is a chilling evil development. The strident call for the rebuilding of the temple in Ayodhya in the place of the mosque by March 2002 will cause the nation to be once again bruised physically, socially and psychologically. A whole generation of politicians without convictions or ideology has left the nation without a credible leadership. There is no Mahatma Gandhi or a Jawaharlal Nehru to lead the nation through its hour of crisis.
In the midst of all this, the Dalit population of India (250 million people) has decided to look for liberation and dignity in other faiths and communities. On October 14th, Ram Rajya with his leaders of the Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes federation comprising of the educated and employed sector of Dalits in government, will en masse turn to Buddhism in a public ceremony in Delhi. A million people are expected to come for this critical event of liberation. Those who do not want to become Buddhist are being encouraged to embrace other faiths as a way out of caste oppression and spiritual liberation.
The news from around India is that Dalits also plan to move to the Christian faith. The Indian church is therefore presented with a challenge of enormous proportions. It will either stand or fall by the stand it takes during the coming months. If the Church is true to Christ and His message it will have to accept all those who turn to the Christian faith. The Church will need to evolve a method and ministry of discipling and developing all those who come into the Christian community.
The Church will also have to support the larger move of the Dalits because it represents freedom of choice. The Church has vigorously fought for this during the last few years through the All India Christian Council and other alliances, and now will have to respect and support whatever choices the Dalits make. Their choice is a deep cry for human dignity, equality and liberation.
The supportive stand of the Christian Church will be a fitting reply to the extremists who have lied about the Church with regards to forcible and fraudulent conversions. The Church has always argued for the right of freedom of conscience and choice for every Indian. And the choice of the Dalits is a free choice and not because of any coercion or manipulation.
It is also the hour for the Indian Church to once for all rid itself of the Caste system in some sections of the Church. Only Caste free Indian Churches will be relevant to the India of this new millennium. This will mean a firm determination to encourage and allow for intercaste marriages within the Church, giving many more opportunities for the Dalits and the other Backward Caste Christians for leadership in the Indian Church. It will also mean a firm resolve to work for the economic and educational development of these people for whom Jesus died. Thank God, for the efforts Indian Churches have put in all these areas in the past decades.
India needs worldwide prayer for the following:
Peace among communities in the midst of tumultuous changes. It is difficult to imagine how the Hindu extremists will respond to this. May they see the aspirations and cries of a people who are looking for social and spiritual deliverance. May they not resort to violence and the killing of innocent people.
Pray for the Dalit leadership in the nation and the leaders of the Other Backward Castes, as their people look to them to provide support and strength during this time of change. The Dalits and OBC's together make up 75% of the Indian population.
Pray for the political leadership in the nation. May they look beyond politics to the social and spiritual desires of the people they represent.
Pray for the Indian Church. Pray there will be no compromise by any section of the Church. Pray that the hearts of the Indian Church leaders will be big and courageous to welcome all those who want to come to the Christian faith for the spiritual and social needs. Pray also for much wisdom.
Pray for the rule of law to be established against all those who are engaging in violence and are arming themselves for civil conflict.
Pray for the social needs of India's majority peoples especially their need for quality education.
Pray for all those Christian leaders who are thrown into the midst of these tumultuous changes. Pray for wisdom, compassion and courage.
Immediately join in to receive this monthly call for worldwide prayer for the Indian nation.
Yours sincerely,
Dr. Joseph Dsouza
On behalf of the 2,000 denominations and groups represented in the All India Christian Council
- From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com)
on: Wed Nov 5 05:19:17 EST 2003
saviour (@ 61.11.76.255
Tell your Souzas to go to Phillipines or Latin America to pray for them instead of praying on Indian boys and girls!
- From: sunny (@ ppp-219.65.97.86.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Thu Nov 6 14:53:50 EST 2003
Souza please go to philipines or Srilanka, He doesn't like you any more, You have already done your job in Tamilnadu by converting all dravidians.
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