Topic started by Karthik-I (@ somehost.affinity.com) on Mon Jul 8 15:08:06 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am curious about the extent of independence South India had in comparision w/North India.

1. How long we under alien rule? (can mean the periods under British, Muslims from OUTSIDE India, or any other invader from outside South India).

2. Did any Tamil ruler other than the Cholas invade other countries & suceed in it?

3. Were there any significant Tamil populations outside South India before the British started moving them as indentured labourers? (Ex: Tamils in Malaysia, Indonesia and so on)

Can u compare that with the North Indian history.

No flames or rantings about Muslims, Brahmins, Dravidians, Aryans and what not please.

Karthik-I

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Roshan (@ 203.115.13.90) on: Mon Jun 23 07:18:10 EDT 2003
  
  Kajan,
  >> But don't misunderstand that i welcome and apreciate all activities of them.>>
  
  No I will not misunderstand coz, I know that you are neutral and reasonable when it comes to this particular issue. I appreciate you for that!
  
  
  
  
  
• From: chris michael (@ webcachem03b.cache.pol.co.uk) on: Tue Jul 1 15:04:36 EDT 2003
  
  tamil people and its community rule
  
  
• From: bala (@ ) on: Thu Apr 8 14:54:06
  
  The cholas belong to a community called Udayars(not mysore udayars). Later Cholas, Udayar dynasty ended with ViraRajendra chola,son of Rajendra chola-I and his successor, Kulothunga-I, the grat grand son of daughter of RajaRaja chola-I, also assumed the title "Anabaya Kulothunga chola Udayar" and his successors also had the name Udayar with them.
  If you need more info go to Gangaikonda cholapuram in TN, you will find a lot of info about them engraved on the temple.
  
  
• From: mannanng katty (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sat Apr 10 14:13:40 EDT 2004
  
  UDAYAR is not a caste but those become wealthy among Kallans or Vellalans claimed they are UDAYAR.
  
  Can you tell DEVA (Tamil DEVAR) of Hindu religion belong to the present day KALLANS?
  
  
• From: bala (@ ac88fdbb.ipt.aol.com) on: Sat Apr 10 17:17:18 EDT 2004
  
  Dear mr.mannanng katty,
  
  Thanks for your reply. I agree with your reply partly, but Udayar is the name that belongs to the people of Parkavakulam community in TN.
  Parkavakulam has three sub-divisions in it. They are nathaman,suridhiman and malayaman.
  
  If you go to Tanjore or Trichy or Perambalur district, all the people of Parkavakulam community will be having the Udayar with their names.
  
  I think that surithiman is called Moopanar now-a-days(I am not sure about that). You will find lot of Malayaman Udayars in Thirukkovilur and Salem areas and lot of Nathama Udayars mostly in Trichy or Perambalur areas.
  
  
• From: mannanng katty (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sun Apr 11 15:25:15 EDT 2004
  
  It is OK...
  For centuries the wealthy Vellalas separated themselves from their main caste.
  
  But the origin of UDAYAR is from Vellalas or Kallan.
  
  Kallan---> Maravan----->Akampadiyan----Vellalan---MUDALIYAR or Udayar.
  
  This is the order of evolution of the Kallans.
  
  Mudali is belong to Kai Kolar who are the decendants of Pallava rulers. Vellas in Thondai Mandalm were the agri labors to Pallavas and now they use the name mudali to respect Pallava rulers.
  
  This UDAYAR too a product during the TELUGU rule.
  
  Udayar means Owners or HAVES in Tamil. This does not mean that they belong to CHOLAS.
  
  The later Cholas originated from Andhra and a mixed product of Pallavas or Kai kolas.
  
  MOOPAN or MOOPANAR is a title to the chifs of a group. Many Parayans in Sri Lanka have names as MOOPAN or MOOPANAR as well as in Kerala where the tribal chiefs call themselves moopan!
  
  But I agree that UDAYARS became wealthy and hold power during the rule of Cholas or other kings.
  
  
• From: tamilnesan (@ 210-210-36-239.lan.sify.net) on: Wed Apr 14 03:53:45 EDT 2004
  
  MR BALA,
  devar varma and udayar are commonly used by Chola rulers(Even pandaya used MaraVARMA Pandiyan)so dont confuse it with todays caste of UDAYAR.
  but like Mannakatty said a section of vellala people calls themselfs as Udayar and naickkar after 14 century they are Todays UDAYAR.
  NOTE 1:BECAUSE there is no inscriptions found as UDAYAR in VALANKAI AND ETAKAI JATTIKAL OF CHOLAS .
  {THIS insciptions are found in 11 12 century.
  
  NOTE 2:More over Mudaliyars Cannot be formed in Kallar NOTE 3.more over Cholas are from Chozlia vellalas only that is why theY MAKE VELLALA SETEELMENTS in thier kingdom
  
  
• From: tamilnesan (@ 210-210-36-239.lan.sify.net) on: Wed Apr 14 03:57:11 EDT 2004
  
  NOTE 2.mudaliyars cannot be formed in kallar
  
• From: tamilnesan (@ 210-210-36-239.lan.sify.net) on: Wed Apr 14 03:59:01 EDT 2004
  
  kaikolars weaving people are idakkai jathi where as vellalas are vallakai jathi(Agri based land lords.
  
  
• From: shankaran (@ 210-210-37-50.lan.sify.net) on: Sun Apr 18 10:30:12 EDT 2004
  
  Karthik
  
  1) India has fallen in to outsiders (particularly North ) to Muslim i guess AD1300 , hope u might have read about the famous prithiviraj (delhi king )as fae as the south india concern its never fallen fully in the hands of muslims.
  2)other than cholas to my knowledge no 1
  3) before british, indonesia had tamil by the help of cholas
  require any more info mail me
  Shankar
  shan_karan2000@yahoo.com
  
  
• From: bala (@ ) on: Fri Aug 6 15:39:21
  
  Mr.Tamilnesan,
  
  Please refer to the meikirthi of Rajendra chola-1,rasathirasa chola-1,adi rasenthira chola-1 and vira rajendra chola-1 , you will see UDAYAR added to their names. History is always like that.
  Therefore, it is clear that udayars are cholas, like pandyas are thevars.
  
  note: rajaraja-1 was the first king to engrave his meikirthi in temples and copper plates.
  
  also, refer to copper plates of tiruvalangadu.
  also, refer to imperial cholas by neelakanda sasthiriyar and sadasiva pandarathar.
  
  thanks
  
  
• From: Dick (@ cache-gtc-ab16.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Aug 6 15:44:03 EDT 2004
  
  This is good piece of info, please give info about the pallavas too adn their architecture . Thank you!!
  
  
• From: Dick (@ cache-gtc-ab16.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Aug 6 15:58:01 EDT 2004
  
  I heared Pallavs were actually the second wave of aryans who came to south india to rule. Can u pleaw give info abt the architectural similarities with Persi?
  
  
• From: Dick (@ cache-gtc-ab16.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Aug 6 15:58:16 EDT 2004
  
  I heared Pallavs were actually the second wave of aryans who came to south india to rule. Can u pleaw give info abt the architectural similarities with Persia?
  
  
• From: punyakumar (@ 164.100.41.9) on: Wed Aug 11 04:58:30 EDT 2004
  
  Cholas a vellalars. The Great Raja Raja Chola was veera saiva velala. Some kings added thevar and udayar does not mean cholas are udayars or thevars. From my elders of my family I came to that we are one of the branch of chola dynasty. Our family title was Chola Lingeswara Raja which was prefixed before name. We are veer saivites
  
  
• From: dev (@ illchn-static-203.199.220.11.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Aug 13 06:45:07 EDT 2004
  
  Kallars from "paalai" land and their profession was robbery. Now they gained wealth, political power because of illegal means like "KANDU VATTI" "KALLA CHARAYAM" "KATTA PANCHAYAT'.PANDIYAS WERE MALLARS AND PRESENT DAY PALLARS. AFTER NAYAKKAR RULE MALLARS BECOME PALLARS AND LOST RULING CLASS STATUS
  
  
• From: Shivaraman (@ www16.simpull.com) on: Sun Aug 15 02:34:48 EDT 2004
  
  Why Chola built non-hindu temples which were later destroyed by Shangarasarya army?
  
  
• From: Javer (@ 199.71.136.70) on: Sat Aug 21 19:34:03 EDT 2004
  
  Shivaraman you are true, most of the old temples in Tamilnadu were originally belonging to Dravids and who were Jains and later converted to Hindus. No wonder even today Dravidians hate Brahmins who converted them to low class Hindus.
  
  
• From: Ramu (@ ) on: Sat Sep 11 21:48:21
  
  Mooppanar is not Moopan. Mooppanar community comes under BC. Mooppanar community peoples in and around Tamil Nadu. Most of the living in Thanjavur and Perambalur. Tirunelveli and Virudhunagar and Dindugal also living lots of Mooppanar community peoples. Mooppanar community called differend names called Senaiyar, Parkavakula Moopanar, etc.,
  
  
• From: Ramu (@ ) on: Sat Sep 11 21:52:05
  
  Mooppanar is not Moopan. Mooppanar community comes under BC. Mooppanar community peoples in and around Tamil Nadu. Most of the living in Thanjavur and Perambalur. Tirunelveli and Virudhunagar and Dindugal also living lots of Mooppanar community peoples. Mooppanar community called differend names called Senaiyar, Parkavakula Moopanar, etc.,
  
  
• From: Ramu (@ ) on: Sat Sep 11 21:56:05
  
  Mooppanar is not Moopan. Mooppanar community comes under BC. Mooppanar community peoples in and around Tamil Nadu. Most of the living in Thanjavur and Perambalur. Tirunelveli and Virudhunagar and Dindugal also living lots of Mooppanar community peoples. Mooppanar community called differend names called Senaiyar, Parkavakula Moopanar, etc.,
  
  
• From: Ramu (@ ) on: Sat Sep 11 22:02:22
  
  Mooppanar is not Moopan. Mooppanar community comes under BC. Mooppanar community peoples in and around Tamil Nadu. Most of the living in Thanjavur and Perambalur. Tirunelveli and Virudhunagar and Dindugal also living lots of Mooppanar community peoples. Mooppanar community called differend names called Senaiyar, Parkavakula Moopanar, etc.,
  
  

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