Topic started by R (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on Wed Dec 4 12:11:15 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:27:52 -0500
From: Michael Witzel
Subject: Re: chariots (was: AIT, NEW genetic evidence)
Tamil :
uruL meaning roll,
uruNdai meaning round or spherical
uruTTu = rotate or roll
Are Tamil words related to Latin rota ?
If so, (according to the Nostratic theory which derives Dravidian, Indo_Euroepan, Uralic, Altaic, Kartvelian in the Caucasus, Afro-Asiatic/Hamito-Semitic from a parent language of c. 10,000 BCE),
then indirectly. As Nostratic is so early, no entry for 'to turn/roll' in the Nostr. dictionary by Illich-Svitych, except for **t.ur^ 'fast', IE *twer, etc.
(I suggest the journal Mother Tongue - $ 25 per year - for such questions, see the website of the journal, newsletter of the Association for the Study of Language In Prehistory (ASLIP):
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/aslip.html
Latin rota, German Rad (both 'wheel') go back to an IE root *reth 'to turn'; Skt. ratha is derived from it, by extension of meaning, cf. Engl. 'my wheels' = 'my car'.
(cakra is more interesting, see below).
Since Dravid. words cannot really begin with r-, the initial u- of uruL may be epenthetic, as in the very old loan word arahan (inscr.) DEDR 201 < Skt. raajan, cf. also araicu < raajan ''king'', and uruva(m) <
ruupa 'form, appearance'...
How come Tamil rule of the retroflex consonants L,N,T seems to be related to the words roll-round-
rotate ? Is it a coincidence? Has someone studies such connections (apparent or real) ?
Onomatopoetic sounds are everywhere of course, --- cf. late Sanskrit lolati / lollati 'to roll, to loll,', Slavic lel-, Latin lolium; -- and cf. Engl. to roll, etc., French rouler, etc. etc. --- note also Skt. gola 'ball, round', Old Newari guluca 'marble', New. guli 'round object', gulicaa 'pill', Japanese goro-goro 'rolling
around, thundering etc.'; --- but they differ from language to language, as do imitations of (animal) sounds... Many studies on onomatopoetica or 'expressive', etc. words, whatever linguists happen to call them. Emeneau has one on Drav. of the type kara-xara, K.Hoffman on the type bal-bal, and
others in Vedic.
Intriguing also is Tamil shares the words for nail, axle, etc., Do they all go to Southwest Asia where wheeled transport was invented?
Well, 'axle' comes from IE *ak'sa (Latin axis, Greek -aksa, O.H.German ahsa, etc./ Vedic: akSa > (N?) Drav. accu; but ANi 'lynch pin' is foreign to both Drav. and Vedic languages (though DEDR derives it from Skt.!) -- and a local loan. But cakra, Engl. wheel, etc. < IE *kwe-kw-lo- may ultimately derive
from Sumerian gilgul 'wheel', cf. also (GIS-)gigir 'wagon'.
However, Dravidian has quite a number of loans from Sumerian in the agricultural field, see Blazek, V. and C. Boisson, The Diffusion of Agricultural Terms from Mesopotamia. Archiv Orientalni 60, 1992, 16-37
, -- --
such as Sumerian ur 'millstone', Proto-South Drav. *ur-al 'mortar' (p. 24), Sumer. ili 'sesame', Akkad. ellu/Ulu 'sesame oil', which is only found in South Drav. with eL, eLLu 'Sesamum indicum' but cf. Ved. tila and jar-tila 'sesame'; etc. etc. ---- which seems to point to a location of early Proto-Drav. closer to Mesopotamia on the Iranian plateau, (cf. also the --supposed -- genetic connection of Drav. and Elamite, in McAlpin's work, denied by a number of Dravidian scholars).
A Drav.- Mesopotamian link, at least of loan words, seems clear, though.
============
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138
ph. 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page: www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm
Elect. Journ. of Vedic Studies: www1.shore.net/~india/ejvs
Tell your friend about this topic