Topic started by Sridhar (@ 203.94.235.71) on Fri Feb 8 13:48:48 .
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Shall we discuss some of the turning points which for good or worse affected our TFI ?

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• Old responses
  
• From: senthilv.com (@ 12-239-160-236.client.attbi.com) on: Sun Apr 21 21:55:10
  
  Sridhar:
  
  '16 Vayathinile' have lot of unique features
  
  Some of them...
  1. Non-linear storyline.
  2. Voice-over narration
  3. Completely shot outdoor in villages
  4. First serious village story.
  5. Open-ending..meaning don't know what the actual ending is.
  6. Juxtapositional scenes and Image system
  7. Use of Dialogue Transitions
  8. Ugly-unintelligent hero (Although Shivaji has done mentally retarded character, he wasn't ugly)
  9. Probably, first Three-dimensional villian character. (Rajini)
  10. And ofcourse 16 years, tackling teenage love story :-)
  11. Use of Freeze frames in the scenes.
  
  If you are in anyway interested in buttocks( especially male) this is first film to show hero's butt :-)
  
  Did this film inspire anyone? Most film touches 16 Vayathile in one or other way. Including Maniratnam.
  
  Eg:
  
  Mani has Senthura Poovai type song in every film, Oh oh magam vanthathoo, Oru poongavanam..Puthu manam, Aathadi Ammadi, Chinna China asai.
  
  The non-linear storyline in Alaipaiuthey.
  
  The Thiruda Thiruda Villages ladies fight looks inspired from 16 Vayathinile's KuruVamma's introduction-fight.
  
  Dalapathi's rajni-shobana discussion in Kovil-Stairs setup seems inspired from 16 Vayathinile's Sridevi's proposal of marriage to kamal in the slope-like terrain.
  
  Mani also has used "Messenger technique" i.e Kamal shuttling-with message between Sridevi and the lover-Doctor in Bombay where kids pass message from Arvindswamy to manisha. In Anjali, the kids instead of passing message they intrepret lover actions seperated in two flats. Albeit not exactly the same but you get the idea.
  
  And also the silhouette shots and framing techniques in scenes and not to leave the scene build-up itself.
  
  Overrall, every village film, panchayat scenes, young heroine attaining physical maturity (?) scenes, juxtaposition scenes, voice-over were all either directly or indirectly inspired from '16 vayathinile'.
  
  Well, there are tons of other stuff to talk about '16 vayathinile' alone.
  
  Senthilv.com
  
  
• From: senthilv.com (@ 12-239-160-236.client.attbi.com) on: Sun Apr 21 22:00:56
  
  ooops..one of para in the above posting should read like this.
  
  Mani also has used "Messenger technique" which '16 Vayathinile' employed with Kamal shuttling-with message between Sridevi and the lover-doctor in 'Bombay' where kids pass the message from Arvindswamy to manisha.
  
  
• From: sridhar (@ 203.94.234.169) on: Wed Apr 24 10:25:04
  
  senthil,
  
  Very good post....Thanks.
  
  
• From: raju (@ webport-cl4-cache7.ilford.mdip.bt.net) on: Wed Apr 24 19:52:40
  
  senthilV,
  i think '16 V' is the most seminal indian film of the last 25 years. i think a connection (story, artistes, associate directors etc...) can be made from this film till now.
  what do you mean 'non-linear story line'?
  
  
• From: senthilv.com (@ 12-239-160-236.client.attbi.com) on: Wed Apr 24 22:54:22
  
  Raju:
  
  You are right! *seminal* is the right word.
  
  Coming to your question, you can say, flashback is a non-linear storyline since it transcends the linearity of time.
  
  But normally, a non-linear storyline manipulates the audience expectation and the actuality to its advantage eg: "bad timing", "short cuts". Lately, Hollywood has discarded the manipulation part and concentrated on just evoking some general feeling. Movies like "pulp fiction", "traffic" are example of that idea.
  
  '16 V' falls in the former category and manages to give this effect sublimely, although the non-linearity is just a simple flashback. Going further, BR makes an open-ending film by making the audience to implicitly assume that, 'chappani' WILL return to Maayil's fold. And he HAS TO according to the story direction and narration. What BR achieved in screenplay is a pure magic and he drew the exact feeling he want to get from the audience. Just for our exercise, we can end “Alaipaiuthey” with madhvan saying “No she won’t die.. She cannot” without even making Shalini to wake up and smile at Madhavan and utter those "silly" words. But this would become more like 16 V’s open ending and Of course, Mani did not want to do the same thing as BR and importantly its not Mani’s style (The style is more like “Shall we elope” words/ending in “Idhayathai thirudathey”)
  
  "Alaipaiuthey" story narration, switches back and forth between past and present. Not only that it withholds that flashback information to manipulate the audience expectation; building suspense and ultimately surprising the audience. So this one falls in a mixed category and it is more like "bad timing". Anyway, thanks to Maniratnam for the non-linear storytelling exercise. If you take away the non-linearity; the film’s story is almost nothing. I guess, Mani was inspired by technical and intellectual challenge.
  
  You want to know more? Mani has done a mini-non-linearity in Roja, but this time, the non-linearity of events really adds something to the film unlike "Alaipaiuthey". In the film, Mani cuts to future-like, to the terrorists throwing the ArvindSwamy's sweater and running away, when they were supposed to exchange Arvind for the Wasim Khan...bewildered (like us), Roja cries in the bridge but refuses to buy that Arvind is dead AND THEN the movies kind-off goes back to past-like, to Arvindswamy's escape. On surface this might look simple but it is a masterstroke by Mani. Here he hid the detail of Arvindswmay's escape from the audience to make them feel with ROJA. Because like her, you don't know whether Arvind got killed or escaped. So, you feel with her; may be, you even feel like here. And also, you share her bewilderment, anxiety and sadness. And then she says "he couldn't have died....No one has seen him dead...where is his body?". Now you as an audience exclaim ---yeah she is DAMN right!!--- Where is his body??? Now, the time is ripe to expose the escape and ONLY THEN Mani's cuts back to Arvind's escape. Isn't this great? Ok Will stop here on this :-)
  
  OK, coming back, although we have seen so many flashback films, '16 V' uniquely used that kind storytelling to its advantage and to enhance the film going experience for the audience and to counter point the audience expectation with open ending. So, it is a FIRST to do that in its non-linear category.
  
  Hope this clarifies.
  
  Senthilv.com
  
  PS: When I am going keep it shorter?!?!?
  
  
• From: Sridhar (@ 203.94.234.210) on: Wed Apr 24 23:49:57
  
  I think '16 V' was remade in hindi as 'solva savan' ? How the movie fared ? Was it remade in other south indian languages ?
  
  BTW,'16 V' inspired indirectly ram gopal varma's hindi movie 'Mast'.Well,aftab who goes to see urmila is none other than ram gopal varma himself who use to stay for hours in madras daily to see sridevi when the shooting took place.
  
  
• From: raju (@ host62-7-154-140.webport.bt.net) on: Thu Apr 25 19:16:03
  
  senthil...thanx. i need to see those films again bfr i can contribute fully. i think pulp fiction is often accused of not being linear and correct if pieced together but tarantino has said that it was deliberate play by him.
  i saw 'vedam' (arjun etc...) and was surprised how cleverly he used flashbacks to tell the story.this is like only the 3rd film of his i had seen and was surprised he managed the 'hard' task of flashback narrative.
  have you seen 'memento'..the ultimate flashback film.
  
  
• From: srk (@ 212.201.44.135) on: Thu Apr 25 20:41:05
  
  
  memento..damm...its the most original film i have seen in hollywood since sixth sense..i was sleepless for 2 days after seeing it...
  screenplay was perfect..the movie ends where it starts..i was shocked that they didnt give oscar to it this year.if someone hasnt seen it...do it today and u will know why
  talkin on falsh backs...alaipayuthe had a intelligent screenplay..the whole movie was like waves flowing betweeen past and present(brillantly chosen title)..totally new to tamil cinema.
  senthiltv,well i agree,16 v was a trendsetter..but i cant digest the similarities u showed between mani's films and 16v..it just happens..Mani always choses whats good for his theme and carves out a nice story for it and i have no doubt that all of is are truly original and has created nice style for him and plz mani wudnt have these things in mind when writes his story.
  
  
• From: senthilv.com (@ 12-239-160-236.client.attbi.com) on: Fri Apr 26 00:30:23
  
  Raju:
  
  Pulp fiction was supposed to be like reading a pulp magazine. Also, the non-linearity motivation is in the theme. I know lot of people hate this film but I love it. Taratino is dialogue F-King and really knows how to use the F-word. His characters argue with Socrates-like-dialectics presenting you with thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis
  
  SRK:
  
  You're right. Mani wouldn't have consciously done it but his scenes make-up has subtle effect of BharathiRaja.
  
  Me being story purist, here is my take on "Memento"—It is definitely a good intellectual exercise, I did the exercise (had to) but it is not a good film. It has Loose, age-old plots, bland characters, un-motivated non-linearity and has no narrative drive. Sixth Sense is a much better film except for the episodic twist and unmotivated set-up’s for the twist. If you take purely story-wise, "16 vayathinile" has much better story narration, motivated non-linearity, wonderful characters and a good story than "memento" :-)
  
  If you really want to see good theme motivated non-linearity; please see "Groundhog's day". It is a stupendous film with a good story.
  
  
• From: raju (@ webport-cl4-cache7.ilford.mdip.bt.net) on: Fri Apr 26 20:31:31
  
  if u buy the dvd of memento, u can actually access the movie in linear mode!!! as well.
  re...B'raja. i saw 'en uyir thoran' last week and felt though i liked the film the editing was atrocious. how did Braja allow such bad editing.
  re...tarantino...dont also forget the N word.
  
  
• From: MAAKAN (@ netmanager.iiu.edu.my) on: Sun Apr 28 20:32:32
  
  Turning points in tamil film Industry???i think it's the movie nayagan...every gangster movie has a touch of nayagan in it
  
  
• From: Stephen speildberg (@ 203.94.93.209) on: Sun Apr 28 22:55:12
  
  Roja turned love story films into terror mixed love story films, and introduced some great music which was never heard before.
  
  Gentleman introduced a story line of, one man fighting aginst the government, which is still been followed.
  
  Jeans introduced some new tactics in dance scene. unlike 25 dancers dancing behind a hero and heroine, a man danced for a girl. Aishwarya dosent know bharatha natyam, but raju danced for her. this tactic or technology was never been followed by any others. maybe it will make a turn!!!
  
  
• From: ANIL KUMAR (@ ) on: Fri Jun 28 03:55:27
  
  HELLO HERE I AM THE FAN AJITH KUMAR.HE IS THE BEST ACTOR IN TAMIL FILM INDUSTRY.TAMIL FILM INDUSTRY IS ALSO A GOOD... (RED RED RED)
  
  

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