Topic started by Naidoo (@ webcachew04b.cache.pol.co.uk) on Mon May 7 19:38:19 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Is the tamil word for coriander a borrowing from Aryan languages or is it the other way round cos the Kannada and Malayalam words are very different?
what is the tamil for Urad Dhal

Responses:

• From: Susmitha (@ 203.202.106.236) on: Tue May 8 00:16:53
  
  The tamil for Urad Dhal is 'ulundu parippu' and in malayalam it is 'uzhunnu parippu'.
  
  Tamil for coriander,as far as i know is 'kottamalli' and it is the same is Malayalam as well. No idea about kannada version.
  
  Sush
  
  
• From: Hemant (@ 202.86.166.2) on: Tue May 8 01:17:54
  
  Dhaniya in Kannada is known as KOTHUMBARI.
  
  
• From: n (@ webcacheh05a.cache.pol.co.uk) on: Tue May 8 16:20:54
  
  thank You guys
  so the word dhaniya is pureley northern?
  
  
• From: Susmitha (@ 203.202.106.236) on: Wed May 9 00:11:37
  
  Yes, as far as I know it is purely northern. what do you say, Hemant?
  
  Sush
  
  
• From: Hemant (@ 203.197.150.234) on: Wed May 9 02:28:59
  
  I am more happy with the Aroma of Dhaniya than the origin of the word.Relax man !!!!! and enjoy the SOOOPER taste of Dhaniya.!!
  
  
• From: ravi sundaram (@ 192.149.1.187) on: Wed May 9 13:18:47
  
  Koththamalli, kothambari, dhaniya ...
  in English it is called Corriander. In Spanish
  it is called Cilantro. This word too has been accepted into English. Then people making distinctions Cilantro is the leaf and coriander is the seed! This english word is based on Latin Coriandrum, which was in turn based on Greek Koriannon.
  
  The word coriander came into English in the 14th century. Direct connection between South India and Europe had not yet been established. So the greek word might not be based on koththamalli, despite both of them starting with "ka" sound. If we learn the Persian, Arabic and Turkish words for this herb we can check if Dhaniya is the odd name for this plant.
  
  BTW, it grows exceptionally well in window boxes. The store bought coriander seeds will sprout.
  
  
• From: Susmitha (@ 203.202.106.236) on: Wed May 9 18:46:31
  
  Ravi,
  why do you think Dhaniya is an odd name? It is used in Hindi and is an accepted name. They do not call it anythign else in Hindi. Though in Bombay, they call it 'kothmeer', I think that could be the marathi name for it.
  
  Sush
  
  
• From: ravi sundaram (@ 192.149.1.187) on: Thu May 10 07:46:03
  
  Sush,
  I did not mean anything insulting by calling dhaniya "odd". Just that it is different.
  
  I was just looking at the word origins. In almost all other languages, (that I know of) this herb's name begins with a ka sound. Of course there could be more languages it has names similar to dha sound. There is a whole science of comparing words in related languages. This brings out surprising insights in history.
  
  For example, the Roma Gypsies of Europe are nomadic people who worship Sun god Rama. By studying the words of their languages and customs and religion it is now very well known that they are groups of Rajasthanis who migrated westwards and then northwards and settled in central Europe in 10th to 12th century. By studying the changes in Rajasthani over time historians are able to deduce how many waves of emigration took place, and when, whether the migrants were warriors or farmers or ranchers etc. more here:
  http://www.forumhub.com/indhistory/17021.10.06.46.html
  
  Interesting tit bit: Carnatic music, everyone knowns, is very tradition bound and very orthodox. But it accepted the Western instrument violin very rapidly to such an extent no carnatic music concert is complete without a violin. How did it come about?
  
  These Roma gypsies took the one stringed Indian violin (yup, the same one played by Bharathiraja's village belle heroines :-)) and Europe refined it as a four stringed instrument and reintroduced it to India. That is why carnatic music accepted it without any fuss.
  
  Anyway we are deviating far from koththamalli.
  I love this stuff.
  
  Recipe of Pico de gallo (pronounced pikkO dii gaayO) :
  
  Coarsely chop 4 medium size ripe tomatoes,
  1 bell pepper (capsicum, kudai moLagaa), 4 Jalapeno peppers (pachcha moLagaa) and
  1 medium size onion and run it through the
  blender for 30 seconds.
  
  Add a cup shredded cheddar cheese and salt.
  Add tons and tons of finely chopped coriander leaves. Just takes three minutes to make.
  
  Yummy with corn chips, tortilla chips etc.
  Great as appetizer or hors d'eurves (sp?)
  
  
• From: Sundar (@ ip16.79.blca.blazenet.net) on: Thu May 10 11:10:32
  
  pico de gallo
  don't get it in your eye-o
  unless you want to cry-o
  it's pico de gallo!
  
  Way to go TFA!
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1529.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Thu May 10 18:18:26
  
  Guys
  
  'ulundu' is word which is attested in ancient Akkadian text in what is today Iraq and was known as Mesopotamenain Civilization. Can you belive that in Tamil it is still prounced the same way it was in ancient Akkadian. It is almost a 4000 yr old borrowing probably from Akkadian into Tamil. (it could be other way too but the former is what is accepted by the mainastream)
  
  Kothamalli for me sound too Tamil to be a borrowing from IA. Infact like someone suggested Kothmeer in Marathi is a survival from thedays when the Marathis were using a Kannad like langauge. Marathi maintains many kinship terms such as Amma, Appa, Tai etc which is used by langauges like Tamil and Kannada.
  
  
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1529.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Thu May 10 18:23:07
  
  Similalrly Arici a purely Tamil/Other Dr. langauges word travelled via Persian into Latin into English into Rice. In Spanish it is Arose.
  
  Our word Briyani is derived from Persian word for rice Brize(i).
  
  The word Orriya is also derived from the Rice grown there and from the languages used there before IA Orriya became the standard.
  
  
• From: Avinash (@ proxy.lga.netsetter.com) on: Thu Jun 28 12:24:25
  
  The Hindi 'Dhaniya' is from classical Sanskrit 'Dhaanyakam'. So coriander/koththamalli must be an old food stuff in India.
  
  
• From: Sheker (@ 202.88.233.18) on: Fri Jun 29 04:08:05
  
  Calling all culinary etymologists (especially Ravi Sundaram!).
  Some food for thought. When you look up the dictionary or other book, almost all vegetables and fruits we take for granted in India today are all natives of other far flung countries such as Mexico, S.America, West Indies, South Sea islands ete. etc.
  Can somebody tell me what constituted the typical food in south or north India, say, a thousand years ago.
  P.S. Incidentally, in Nagercoil and central Travancore, the kitchen is referred to as kusini. This resembles cuisine, of course. How did it come here and from where?
  Sheker
  
  
• From: ravi sundaram (@ 192.149.1.187) on: Fri Jul 6 09:40:30
  
  Sheker,
  Very big topic!!
  Will take a long article to discuss how the
  17-18th century changed the staples of the entire world.
  
  Hope to find some time to write it up soon.
  
  
• From: Sheker (@ 202.88.233.18) on: Sat Jul 7 10:10:55
  
  Ravi,
  You've really whetted my appetite now! Don't keep me waiting. The suspense is killing me!
  Ravenous,
  Sheker
  
  
• From: Sundar (@ access-isdn1-15.gv.psu.edu) on: Sat Jul 7 15:24:02
  
  "vegetables and fruits we take for granted in India today are all natives of other far flung countries such as Mexico, S.America, West Indies, South Sea islands ete. etc."
  
  Au contraire, my friend.. Some original "100%" native indian cooking is very much alive and cooking. If you go to orthodox temples in the south, you will find cooking using a maximum of native ingredients.
  
  To give an example close to me, "puliyotharai" that you cook at home most likely will have some red chili peppers in it. In the "perumaL koyil" version, only black pepper is used.
  
  Some very common vegs/fruits native to the subcontinent - rice, mangoes, banana, jackfruit, cashews, roots like ginger/senai/sembu. Now these have spread to many continents. We in turn have got back things like potato and chili peppers that we have integrated greatly into Indian cooking. For example a lot of the sembu we get in the US comes to us as "taro" from the Caribbean. Mangoes come here from Puerto Rico and Mexico.
  
  Don't forget, one of the reasons a sea route to India was a big deal was to get some direct access to spice trades.
  
  
• From: chris (@ 144.42.9.23) on: Thu Aug 23 13:42:01
  
  pooda pooda punaku, podatha thapu kanaku!
  
  

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