Topic started by Thomas Greenberg (@ scf5-fe0-1.wc.optusnet.com.au) on Tue Dec 31 21:36:47 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi there, when I was travelling recently, I was in Hong Kong, and visited a teriffic small indian restaurant which seemed very authentic and served up the best indian food I have ever tasted.. while I was there, I had the Rogan Josh, and it was the most delicious dish I've ever tasted..
I was wondering if anyone could help me with an authentic recipe for it?... The recipes I've found so far seem to be very heavy in tomatoes and yogurt(curd), whereas the Rogan Josh I had in this restaurant did not seem to taste very strongly of tomatoes and curd... It had a medium amount of gravy, but not nearly as much as dishes like butter chicken (murgh makhani).. also it was medium spiced, not too spicy, not too mild.

well I hope someone can help me, it would be greatly appreciated.

regards,
Thomas.

Responses:

• From: Thomas Greenberg (@ scf5-fe0-1.wc.optusnet.com.au) on: Tue Dec 31 21:40:59
  
  Oops I forgot to mention, the gravy was not a bright red colour, it was more brown / light brown coloured.. actually the gravy looks almost exactly like this.. except there was less gravy (it was more dry than in this photo)
  http://www.bawarchi.com/amul/dhara/dhara20.jpg
  
  thanks again,
  Thomas.
  
  
• From: funcook (@ tor-58-17a-209197160023.3web.net) on: Sat Jan 18 22:44:48
  
  Hello Thomas,
  
  For sure what you had is not Rogan Josh. It is definitely Lamb "CURRY".
  
  Rogan Josh (the recipe for which you could find on the web) - does not have too much of a sauce. It is more like a pickle with a lot of oil floating around it. Its main ingredient is yoghurt, asafoetida and other spices and ofcourse the local mountain sheep is it?. Some recipes call in for "Ratan Jog" - a coloring bark like condiment whose usage is not very popular in my opinion.
  
  The Rogan Josh that you supposedly had at the restautant in Hongkong - is made with these ingredients: (almost)
  
  Boneless lamb (unless they used lamb on the bone)
  sliced onions
  chopped tomatoes
  oil
  cardamom
  cloves
  cinnamon
  bayleaf
  peppercorns
  red chilli powder
  paprika powder
  coriander powder
  cumin powder
  turmeric powder
  garam masala powder
  ginger and garlic pastes
  
  Heat oil, add sliced onions and saute till light golden brown. Add ginger and garlic pastes, and fry for a few minutes. Add the meat and stir fry till meat is seared. Cook till meat is almost done (in case you make this in small quantities - you may have to add water)
  Add chopped tomatoes, and cook till tomatoes are well blended. Add the powdered spices and seasoning. Cook till meat is done. Finish with a little beaten yoghurt.
  Garnish with chopped cilantro leaves.
  
  The color of the sauce depends on how browned the onions are in the first place.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Arvind (@ cache01.flow.com.au) on: Tue Jan 21 06:19:47
  
  Dear Thomas have you tried Patak(from UK) brand of curry pastes. I am sure if you experiment with one of the good curry pastes and use thickened cream instead of yoghurt, towards the end and cook for some extra 10-15 minutes you will get better results.
  
  
  
• From: Sonu Munshi (@ dialup-4.254.202.234.dial1.phoenix1.level3.net) on: Sat Oct 9 03:18:04
  
  THIS is the most authentic rogan josh recipe you'll find, since it's coming from a kashmiri :-)
  
  Enjoy and forget the previous one...as there's NO tomatoes EVER in authentic rogan josh!!!
  ----------------------------------------------
  
  2 pounds lamb meat
  
  1/2 cup refined vegetable oil
  
  3 cloves
  
  3 brown cardamoms
  
  A small pinch of asafoetida powder
  
  4 green cardamoms
  
  1 and 1/2 tsp red chilli powder
  
  3/4 tsp ginger powder
  
  2 tsp fennel powder
  
  3 bay leaves
  
  3 table spoons yogurt
  
  1/3 tsp cinnamon powder
  
  ½ tsp cumin powder
  
  salt as per taste.
  
  4 cups water
  
  METHOD
  
  Put oil in a pressure cooker and heat it. Add bay leaves cloves, brown cardamom, asafoetida and salt and stir. Then quickly add lamb pieces.
  
  Fry the meat on medium heat till it is browned. This should take about 15-20 mins. Then add red chilli powder and again stir it for one minute. Then add the curd and again stir for one minute.
  
  Add 4 cups of water and all other ingredients in it and stir. Now put the lid over it and give it pressure for roughly 10 minutes. Cool down the pressure cooker before opening the lid by putting it under cold running water and then open the lid. Check if the mutton is tender. If it is ok then simmer it for a minute or so and serve with plain boiled rice.
  .
  If you don’t have a pressure cooker, just use six cups of water instead of 4 to cook the meat in a heavy bottomed pan and put a lid over the pan and simmer it till it gets tender. First boil it then simmer it.
  
  
• From: waaza (@ host213-122-77-89.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Sat Oct 9 15:58:27 EDT 2004
  
  I agree with Sonu Munshi, there are no tomatoes in authentic Roghan Josh(which is a type of Korma, meaning a braised dish). The red colour of this dish comes from the use of Kashmiri chilli pepper,now very difficult to get, so if you don't want it too hot, substitute paprika instead for some of the chilli. It is no less authentic, as they are both capsicums. And I would fry the meat for longer after the curd has been added, so that it dries up and the lamb (it is always lamb!) starts to brown. Add the water, then put it into a low temperature oven (say 140C) to braise until the meat is tender. By this time, most of the water has gone, leaving a very rich fatty gravy. Wonderful in the winter months.
  What you describe you had sounds very near to the pukka dish!
  cheers
  Waaza
  
  
• From: funcook (@ dsl-209-183-20-19.tor.primus.ca) on: Tue Oct 12 21:13:29 EDT 2004
  
  rrrr!
  
  Yes - I thought that's what I said about an authentic Rogan Josh
  
  And for that matter Kashmiri chillies are not too hot, they have this ability to stand out in a cooked dish as bright orange red
  
  And for sure what Thomas had in the restaurant is not Rogan Josh, it is some kind of lamb curry made with a browned onion paste sauce
  
  
  Funcook
  
  
• From: Wazza (@ host213-122-50-19.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Sat Oct 16 09:23:31 EDT 2004
  
  well maybe that is what you intended to imply, its not what I inferred, though. And I can't understand why you then included a recipe for a none authentic rogan josh, as the original poster asked for a pukka one. I can't see how you can state that the poster did not have the authentic tasting dish, surely the colour is not as important as the taste, which could have been pukka, only the colouring (natural or dye) could have been left out, not a bad thing these days.
  cheers
  Waaza
  
  
• From: Funcook (@ dialin-157-195.tor.primus.ca) on: Mon Oct 18 21:02:50 EDT 2004
  
  Hello Wazaa!
  
  To clarify your unintentional inferences, the reason I elaborated on the non-authentic Rogan Josh served in an Indian restaurant is because Indian restaurants do not make an authentic Rogan Josh
  
  I do understand that I cannot see how Thomas did not have an original Rogan Josh, cause I didn't see
  
  funcook
  
  
• From: Funcook (@ dialin-157-195.tor.primus.ca) on: Mon Oct 18 21:19:59 EDT 2004
  
  BTW - this is a link that demystifies Indian restaurant Menus esp in the UK
  
  http://www.eatanddrink.co.uk/menu/indian/indian_menu.asp
  
  funcook
  
  
• From: Waaza (@ host213-122-114-29.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Wed Oct 20 15:55:52 EDT 2004
  
  fair enough. There are many people in the UK who know about Indian restaurants, and the rubbish they serve up in the name of Indian food, I have sampled over 300 restaurants, and have only found one that did anything like the pukka stuff, though they only sold two meat dishes, two rice dishes and some kebabs, lovely stuff though. Yes, the Indian restaurant in the UK is a joke, thankfully there are some of us around who know the difference and try to do something about it.
  cheers
  Waaza
  
  
• From: funcook (@ dialin-159-145.tor.primus.ca) on: Wed Oct 20 20:06:56 EDT 2004
  
  Hello Waaza!
  
  BTW - I heard some new ones that have come up are really good like Zaika, Cafe Namaste Spice, Sarkhel's, Tamarind, Benares and of course the very established Veeraswamy
  
  How do you rate these places?
  funcook
  
  
• From: Waaza (@ host213-122-167-73.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Mon Oct 25 18:56:33 EDT 2004
  
  I have not been to any of them, I think they are all in London, which is a two day round trip for me. However, I have tried to gather some info from their web sites, and give my opinion on that only.
  Zaika: pseudo Indian, not authentic, maybe all made up!
  Cafe Namaste spice: Not authentic, but they look as though they are trying, they think Korma is a sauce!
  Sarkhel's: The chicken tikka makhani put me off, a kind of old style meets new style, didn't work for me.
  Tamarind: East meets West, not Indian, but Indian ingredients.
  Benares: Indian type dishes dressed as French, looked good food, but not Indian.
  Veeraswamy: mm. What can I say, taken over by the Chutney Mary people (a derogatory term!) say they serve dishes by Camelia Punjabi.
  Hope this helps
  cheers
  Waaza
  
  
• From: funcook (@ dialin-165-84.tor.primus.ca) on: Mon Oct 25 21:14:12 EDT 2004
  
  Thanks Wazaa
  
  I had only heard good things about these places
  
  You are prpbably the first one to be so frank
  
  BTW - which is a good restaurant in London - you did mention one good authentic place earlier
  
  
• From: buzzzy (@ 69-165-234-34.atlsfl.adelphia.net) on: Sun Oct 31 18:04:14 EST 2004
  
  Hi just reading your views on Indian resturaunts in England,I had a granite company in manchester for many years and bought granite from India, I traveled there many times and entertained Indians from the granite company there many times. As soon as they arrived they asked to be taken to little india (wilmsalow road area Manchester) where the themselves claimed that the Indian food there was the best in the world by far. The best Rogan Jost however is served at the hilal resturaunt in Handforth Manchester. I regularly travel there from Florida where I now live just for that meal, there is a certain flavor in it I have never been able to copy, and believe me ive tried everything. If anybody out there knows their resipe, I woud love to get it
  
  
• From: Waaza (@ host213-122-167-12.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Tue Nov 2 09:52:11 EST 2004
  
  The food I liked in London was from a cafe/take away style restaurant, bright and honest, I could see into the kitchen as there was only a glass partition in between. They served only a couple meat dishes, a couple rice dishes, salads and raita, and some different kinds of kebabs. The meat and non-meat dishes were kept quite separate.I think there may be several of these places, it is calles Mobeems, and the one I have been to regularly when in London is n Grenn Street, between Romford Road and the Barking Road, other end of Green Street to West Ham football ground. They offered to give my sister -in-law some cooking lessons (she's already very good!
  cheers
  Waaza
  
  
• From: Waaza (@ host213-122-167-12.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Tue Nov 2 09:58:00 EST 2004
  
  for Buzzzy
  there is a trap that perhaps all of us fall into, and that is people from a particular country are experts of their own cuisine. I have found this not to be the case in nearly every case, and Indian people in general are not expert at cooking Indian dishes. Most are amateurs (an observation, not a criticism!) and have learnt from their mums, etc. but most top restaurants are not run by mums, they are run by professionals who should know all about their trade. Your Indian friends may have liked what the curry mile had to offer, but it isn't, and never was Indian food!!
  cheers
  Waaza
  Tell us about the flavour you like in RJ, we may be able to figure it out!
  
  

Want to post a response?