Topic started by Munna (@ s05.austin.ibm.com) on Fri Oct 20 16:20:16 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I got a chance to go through ManuSmrithi(a translation) couple of days ago.

Manu is supposedly a king. but his work seems to be totally supportive of another varna. From the punishments given for rapists to murders, everything was decided based on varna and caste rather than the incident itself. I do have some questions. if some one can answer, it would be great.

1) was he really a king? if he were, why did he showed so much support for another varna rather than his own?

2) His work also mentions the kinds of meat ANYONE can eat and the types of meat that should not be eaten. Also specifies that a particular varna people should not eat garlic and some other stuff. I know some people who dont eat garlic and the other prohibted food stuff.
Do vedas say anything about what one can eat and cannot?

3) IMO,if Manu did rule according to these rules, he could not have been a good ruler. Has there been any evidence to such a person in history?
What would be his time period?

4) A friend of mine mentioned that "Artha Sasthram" by Koudilyar (Chanakya) is much worse. Is that true?

5) ManuSmrithi also mentions in many places about eating the meat of an animal slaughtered as sacrifice. Do Vedas have any references/explanations for this activity?

6) Is it Buddha who stopped these sacrifices by his principle of "ashimsa"? Was it true that in reply the Hindus also started practicing "ahimsa" ? and included Buddha as one of the reincarnations of Lord Vishnu?

thanks,

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: happyindian (@ bbcache-17.singnet.com.sg) on: Sat Jan 22 10:22:01 EST 2005
  
  "...And if my communication with the divine is my chosen path of faith then what the hell is wrong with you all not to accept my oppinion"
  
  Which opinion are you talking abt? As for me anything that cannot be proven or disproven is always in the KIV arena and is something I cannot completely adhere to. I too am searching for answers as everyone else here you see, so I suppose its awful 2 come across insulting / using descriptive language, etc either to argue / defend my own opinions / line of thought, when so many things are not confirmed as yet.
  
  
• From: Fuck The RSS! (@ p3ee2d8ae.dip.t-dialin.net) on: Sun Jan 23 11:44:26 EST 2005
  
  Happy Indian,
  You should actually know that I don't insult you. There are not a lot where I disagree with you. When I accept your point of being hindu then I am definitely hindu.
  My oppinion about God: There is no God outside me. I am my god, I am made of a case and a ghost. The case and the ghost create my mood of being devine or devil.
  
  
• From: BAB (@ cache-mtc-ae05.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 23 19:54:43 EST 2005
  
  Beginning an end only applies to cycle of time or yugas. There can never be a beginning of time as it means it must come from nothing and something cannot come from nothing. In Hinduism we speak of projections, extensions and expansions of God not creation from God. All is God is the Hindu understading of the world. Nothing can exist outside of God.
  
  
• From: happyindian (@ bbcache-8.singnet.com.sg) on: Sun Jan 23 21:41:43 EST 2005
  
  Very interesting Bab...
  
  
• From: happyindian (@ bbcache-11.singnet.com.sg) on: Sun Jan 23 21:48:52 EST 2005
  
  Ok FTR, Peace then :-), I like your concept of God.
  
  Generally speaking, I really hope to see clean language from fellow hubbers in future, whether it is directed towards anyone or not, after all we are all fellow learners in this whole process. Ofcourse this applies to me too (depending on my mood :-))
  
  
• From: Bab (@ cache-rtc-ae05.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 24 12:27:50 EST 2005
  
  The present day version of Manu Smrithi is filled with all kinds of conundrums and gutter nonsense especially about women and inequaliites about human beings. It is a compilation of years and years of revised editions that are influenced by personal interests and the growth of human divide. It cannot be the original version, and it is not considered a Hindu Scripture although some would continue to refer to it as such.
  
  
• From: Fuck The RSS! (@ p3ee2d9d4.dip.t-dialin.net) on: Thu Jan 27 07:17:07 EST 2005
  
  "It is a compilation of years and years of revised editions that are influenced by personal interests and the growth of human divide."
  why is it that you and me know this but the most do not even understand your very first letter?
  
  Manu is from England - Manchester United
  
  
• From: Arunmozhi Thevan (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:38:35 EST 2005
  
  // I really hope to see clean language from fellow hubbers in future, whether it is directed towards anyone or not, after all we are all fellow learners in this whole process. Ofcourse this applies to me too (depending on my mood :-))//
  
  Dear Happy Pundaiyan:
  
  Your mom got fucked by 100 dogs - the 100th one being your dad!
  
  Anbudan,
  ~ Raja Raja Cholan ~
  
  
• From: MMC (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:41:43 EST 2005
  
  //From: happyindian (@ bbcache-8.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Jan 21 22:27:55 EST 2005
  FTR,
  
  Please write down how many Hindu literary works and religious texts have you read so far, then I will answer your question.//
  
  Ask me ass hole. Let me post some Hindu religious texts here for you:
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:44:13 EST 2005
  
  Lord Indra's wife the Goddess Indrani says the following in the Rig Veda. Read and weep Hindu pigs:
  
  "[Indrani:] 'No woman has finer loins than I, or is better at making love. No woman thrusts against a man better than I, or raises and spreads her thighs more.' "
  
  -- Rig Veda 10:86:6.
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:45:33 EST 2005
  
  LORD INDRA RAPES SAGE GAUTAMA'S WIFE AHALYA
  
  ".... Indra raped Ahalya and was cursed by her husband, the sage Gautama, to lose all his prosperity ...."
  
  -- Brahmavaivarta Purana 4:47:11-45.
  
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:47:21 EST 2005
  
  HINDU GODDESS LAKSHMI LIVES IN COW SHIT & URINE
  
  "The goddess of fortune (Sri) left the demons and went to the gods. After many years she went to the cows and asked to dwell within them; at first they refused, since she was so inconstant and fickle; at last she said, 'No part of your bodies is disgusting; let me live somewhere in you.' The cows agreed to let her dwell in their urine and dung."
  
  -- Mahabharata 13:81:1-86.
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:51:28 EST 2005
  
  HUNGRY HINDU GODDESSES EAT SIVA'S TESTICLES:
  "The demon Ruru with his army attacked the gods, who sought refuge with Devi. She laughed, and an army of goddesses emerged from her mouth. They killed Ruru and his army, but then they were hungry and asked for food. Devi summoned Rudra Pasupati and said, 'You have the form of a goat and you smell like a goat. These ladies will eat your flesh or else they will eat everything, even me.'
  
  (Continued below)
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-99.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 12:52:09 EST 2005
  
  Siva said, 'When I pierced the fleeing sacrifice of Daksa, which had taken the form of a goat, I obtained the smell of a goat. But let the goddesses eat that which pregnant women have defiled with their touch, and newborn children, and women who cry all the time.' Devi refused this disgusting food, and finally Siva said, 'I will give you something never tasted by anyone else: the two balls resembling fruits below my navel. Eat the testicles that hang there and be satisfied.' Delighted by this gift, the goddesses praised Siva."
  
  -- Padma Purana 5:26:91-125; cf. Linga Purana 1:106:1-27; Matsya Purana 252:5-19, 179:7-186; Kurma Purana 1:16:141-222.
  
  
• From: happyindian (@ bbcache-12.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Jan 28 14:33:44 EST 2005
  
  Thanks for informing us Dr.Veena. You sure are a fine author and a great translator. Please let me know who awarded you your doctorate degree in religion abuse, or is that too doctored on your own. Please compile your research and write your own book instead of doing a cut&paste job ( http://www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/hindu/hindu_heretics.html ). Perhaps you shd also do the fake doctored Nostradamus quotes doing their rounds on the net and try and see what's in your own future and life after death. You perhaps forgot this: http://forumhub.com/indhistory/19841.6010.21.30.09.html
  Why did you run away from there?
  
  
• From: happyindian (@ bbcache-9.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Jan 28 14:39:16 EST 2005
  
  Reply to these responses first:
  http://forumhub.com/indhistory/6010.21.30.09.html
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-97.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 18:58:27 EST 2005
  
  Dear HappyLavadekebaal,
  
  Here is some more reading material for you (lovingly cut and pasted by your mom's lover Poolu Acharya):
  
  Ramayana recounts the "story of King Dasharatha who, in order to have a baby son, made a big sacrifice (yagnam) of sheep, cattle, horses, birds and snakes. He then delivered his three wives Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to three priests. These holy men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies to the King. By this means, the King was able to have three sons - Ram, Lakshman and Bharat" (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details on yagnam, refer to the book "Gnana Surian", published by Kudi Arasu Press).
  This shows the truly cheap nature of Rama's immoral father. He was willing to prostitute his wives merely in order to gain personal benefits ! The `great king' Rama's father was merely a lowly pimp who handed his wives over to whosoever could fulfill his selfish needs !
  
  This is how your beloved Rama was born!
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-97.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 18:59:15 EST 2005
  
  Here is the link:
  
  http://www.dalitstan.org/books/awake/awake4.html
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-97.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 19:31:40 EST 2005
  
  // write your own book instead of doing a cut&paste job //
  
  Dear HappyMotherFucker,
  
  I post what other scholars and writers have written and posted on the web. I post articles from the New York times and other magazines in the new hub sometimes. Would you ask me to become a journalist and write my own news articles instead of cutting and pasting from newspapers also?
  
  I expected RSS coolies like you to come up with smarter attacks than this. Perhaps you should take lessons from the Betteltunte? BuhhuHehehehehehahaha!
  
  :-))
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-97.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 19:42:24 EST 2005
  
  Here are some nice juicy details about Rama's Wife Seetha's nipples, as described by Ravana as he ogled at and drooled over them:
  
  vishaalam jaghanam piinam uuruu kari kara upamau |
  etau upacitau vR^ittau sa.mhatau sa.mpragalbhitau || 3-46-19
  piina unnata mukhau kaantau snigdha taala phala upamau |
  maNi praveka aabharaNau rucirau te payo dharau || 3-46-20
  
  "Your hips are beamy, thighs burly akin to elephant's trunks, and these two breasts of yours that are ornamented with best jewellery are rotund, rubbing and bumping each other, and they are swinging up and up, their nipples are brawny and jutting out, and they are smoothish like palm-fruits, thus they are covetable for they are beautiful. [3-46-19, 20]
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-216-127-82-97.ev1servers.net) on: Fri Jan 28 19:50:09 EST 2005
  
  My comments on the above verses:
  
  How the hell did Seetha allow Ravana to look at her nipples? Why does not the bitch at least try to cover her bare boobs when she is in the presence of a stranger?
  
  I have read the original Ramayana text which gives the answer to this conundrum. Seetha had marital problems with Rama due to his inadequate manhood. When she saw Ravana, she fell in love with him and enticed him to carry her away by displaying her beauty to him, by being topless in front of him.
  
  Even after Rama kidnapped Seetha from Ravana's palace, he suspected that seetha's children were not his own, as he knew that he was impotent and that there was no way he could have fathered his two kids. This is why the whole firewalking drama was enacted.
  
  
• From: happyindian (@ bbcache-8.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Jan 28 22:51:03 EST 2005
  
  Dr. Veena aka MMC,
  You indeed have a very fertile imagination and your translation + arguements abt Ramayana are, ofcourse as befits you mind / your way of thinking. So you hv been reading the original Ramayana text - is it the DMK version, Christian version or the Islamic version. There are far too many versions you know, various kings ordered their own versions written by their state scholars, various interpretations are available from the cheaply se*ual to divining divinity, every author who liked to write produced their own thesis on it (I suppose it was the most discussed /written abt work until the 14th or 15th century (alike modern day Sheakesperean work), there is one that's my own version too far different from the "scholarly work of others that you cat & paste". We will surely discuss it in a new thread in new forum where there are no posting space constraints soon in the near future. Perhaps you too shd do your research and be prepared in the meantime. See you.
  
  
• From: Dr. Veena (@ ev1s-207-44-180-48.ev1servers.net) on: Sat Jan 29 08:23:43 EST 2005
  
  //You indeed have a very fertile imagination and your translation //
  
  Dear Happy Lavadekebaal:
  
  This translation is not mine. It is from a Hindu site run by Hindu Pigs.
  
  http://www.valmikiramayan.net/
  
  

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