Topic started by Indian (@ hor186074.uea.ac.uk) on Sun Aug 18 12:13:16 .
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Naipaul again: Pak cradle of terror

Agencies

London, August 7: Nobel Laureate V.S. Naipaul has stated that the Godhra
carnage was designed to create a reaction that led to the burning of Gujarat
for months together.

In an interview to the Times, Sir Naipaul, who does not hide his definite
antipathy for ‘‘Islam’s fanatical role in India’s past as well as
present’’, said: ‘‘The original thing that started it was a terrorist
act, and should be considered so. It was meant to create a reaction.’’



The 70-year-old Sir Naipaul, who created a row by expressing his sympathy for
Hindu revivalism in the form of the BJP, says: ‘‘My feelings about the BJP
are very complicated,’’ but adds that he has not changed his basic view.

‘‘I think every liberal person should extend a hand to that kind of
movement from the bottom. One takes the longer view rather than the political
view. There’s a great upheaval in India and if you’re interested in India,
you must welcome it,’’ said the Trinidad-born British author.

Naipaul said he was aware of the absurdity of an international war against
terrorism for the simple reason that ‘‘your biggest enemy is your great
ally’’.

Even though he approved of the war against Afghanistan aimed at flushing out
the Taliban and Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in the
September 11 attacks on the US, Naipaul said: ‘‘Your biggest enemy is your
great ally — Saudi Arabia — and the foot-soldiers of terror come from your
other ally — Pakistan.’’

Asked whether he had any inkling of the possibility of the September 11
attacks, he said: ‘‘I’ve been aware of madness in the Islamic world.
I’ve written about it.’’

‘‘The madness of people who have fallen behind technically, and who do not
have the will to make the intellectual effort to catch up. I was aware of the
religious hatred, I was aware of the indifference to life. I was aware of the
anti-civilisation aspect of the new fundamentalism. But I had no idea it had
gone so far — the madness,’’ the author of Indian origin said.

‘‘The idea of their strength is an illusion. Nothing comes from within. The
terrorists can fly a plane, but what they can’t do is build a plane. What
they can’t do is build those towers... It’s nothing but religious hatred.
And that is so hard to deal with, or even contemplate. You can deal with the
poor striking out, but you can’t deal with the threat of a universal
religious war,’’ said Naipaul, who was knighted in 1990.

Talking about Pakistan, he says both his books on Islam have been
‘‘banned’’ there.

‘‘Anyway it’s not a book-reading country. It has no intellectual life —
it’s against the intellectual life. I think if the fount of all your actions
is religion and the idea of the religious war, which involves religious hatred,
then books, civilisation... These things don’t matter to you. All you need is
the Koran and a ruler with a big stick,’’ the 70-year-old author said.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: teynampettai theruporukki (@ 66.98.130.76) on: Thu Nov 13 21:30:19 EST 2003
  
  HINDUISM & CASTE
  Caste (varna):
  Brahmin = Priest Caste;
  Ksatriya = Rajanya/Ruler/Warrior Caste;
  Vaisya = Commoner Caste;
  Sudra = Servant/Slave Caste; and
  Avarna = Outcaste/Untouchable/Dalit/Candala/Dog-eater.
  
  There are also many subsets in each caste. Dvija = twice-born (twice-born = upper 3 castes or sometimes just Brahmin caste particularly). Some Hindus have a delusion that caste is not promoted by any of their holy books. Is that really so? Let's find out:
  
  "By his very birth a Brahmin is a deity even for the gods and the only authority for people in this world, for the Veda is the foundation in this matter." -- Manusmrti 11:85.
  
  "People here whose behaviour is pleasant can expect to enter a pleasant womb, like that of a woman of the Brahmin, the Ksatriya, or the Vaisya caste. But people of foul behaviour can expect to enter the foul womb, like that of a dog, a pig, or an outcaste woman." -- Chandogya Upanisad 5:10:7.
  
  "If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at one of the twice-born, his tongue should be cut out, for he was born from the rear-end. If he mentions their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail ten-fingerslong should be thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to instruct priests about their duty, the king should have hot oil poured into his mouth and ears." -- Manusmrti 8:270-272.
  
  "If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the same seat as a man of superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and banished, or have his buttocks cut off." -- Manusmrti 8:281.
  
  "If in the process of negotiating betrothal there are first ten suitors of the non-Brahmana varna for a woman (the marriageable girl), all of them lose their claims of marriage and, only the Brahmin, the learned one, if he grasps her hand would be her husband and only he. Not even the man of Ksatriya varna and not even the man of Vaisya varna but only the Brahmin is the husband of the bride in such cases of claimants of betrothal, and the sun, as it appears, revealing this fact to the people of five classes (4 varnas and the fifth avarna) rises up." -- Atharva Veda 5:17:8-9.
  
  "If someone born in a Ksatriya, Vaisya, or Sudra womb should be unable to pay his fine, he may absolve himself of the debt by labour; a Brahmin should pay little by little. The king should have women, children, madmen, and the old, the poor, and the ill chastised with a whip, a bamboo cane, a rope, and so forth." -- Manusmrti 9:229-230.
  
  "The Sudra's duty and supreme good is nothing but obedience to famous Brahmin householders who know the Veda. If he is unpolluted, obedient to his superiors, gentle in his speech, without a sense of 'I', and always dependent on the Brahmins and the other (twice-born castes), he attains a superior birth (in the next life)." -- Manusmrti 9:334-335.
  
  "…thereby the Ksatriya, whenever he likes, says, 'Hello Vaisya, just bring to me what you have stored away!' Thus he both subdues him and obtains possession of anything he wishes by dint of this very energy." -- Satapatha Brahmana 1:3:2:15.
  
  "One-fourth of (the punishment for) Brahmin-killing is traditionally regarded as (the punishment) for the killing of a Ksatriya, one-eighth for (killing) a Vaisya, and it should be one-sixteenth for (killing) a Sudra who knows his place." -- Manusmrti 11:127.
  
  "A Brahmin is a great deity whether or not he is learned, just as fire is a great deity whether or not it is brought to the altar. The purifying fire with its brilliant energy is not defiled even in cremation grounds, and when oblations of butter are placed in it at sacrifices it grows even greater. Thus Brahmins should be revered in every way, even if they engage in all kinds of undesirable actions, for this is the supreme deity. If the Ksatriyas become overbearing towards the Brahmins in any way, the Brahmins themselves should subdue them, for the Ksatriyas were born from the Brahmins." -- Manusmrti 9:317-320.
  
  "A Ksatriya in adversity may also make a living by all of these (means); but he should never be so proud as to assume the livelihood of his betters. If a man of the lowest caste should, through greed, make his living by the innate activities of his superiors, the king should confiscate his wealth and banish him immediately. One's own duty, (even) without any good qualities, is better than someone else's duty well done; for a man who makes his livingby someone else's duty immediately falls from (his own) caste." -- Manusmrti 10:95-97.
  
  "With whatever limb an inferior insults or hurts his superior in caste, of that limb the king shall cause him to be deprived. If he places himself on the same seat with his superior, he shall be banished with a mark on hisbuttocks. If he spits on him, he shall lose both lips; If he breaks wind against him, his hindparts; If he uses abusive language, his tongue. If a (lowborn) man through pride gives instruction (to a member of the highest caste) concerning his duty, let the king order hot oil to be dropped into his mouth. If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot)." -- Visnusmrti 5:19-25.
  
  "His (Purusa's) mouth became the Brahmin; his arms were made into the Ksatriya, his thighs the Vaisya, and from his feet the Sudra was born." -- Rig Veda 10:90:12.
  
  In comparison, Sudras are as low as feet & Outcastes (avarna) are even below that status of course.
  
  
  
  LORD SIVA ENJOYS SLUTS FOR 12 YRS. & IS PUNISHED BY SAGES & CASTRATED
  
  "When the women of the Pine Forest saw Siva begging in their hermitage they were overcome by desire. Only Arundhati, the faithful wife of Vasistha, resisted. All the others, old women and young girls, threw off their clothing and urged Siva to make love to them.... Then the sages beat and reviled Siva, and Siva went to Vasistha's house and said to Arundhati, the daughter of Daksa, 'I have been beaten by the sages in this wood and have come to you as a guest. Give me alms, fair lady.' Then he showed Arundhati all his wounded limbs, covered with blood, and all his body, enticing her, but she bathed his handsome body as if it were the body of her own son, and she said to him, 'My son, you are welcome here.' Then he was pleased with her, and he said, 'We ascetics and naked beggars are well pleased with you. May you prosper in your marriage, and may your old husband become young and able again, with a divine body, never ageing, like an immortal.' Then Siva left the house and wandered through the woods with the frenzied women, laughing and making love to them day and night for twelve years.... Then with a curse the sages caused Siva's linga to fall. The fiery linga stretched for many miles and landed in the body of Sati, but when it had plunged into the ground its divine energy was withdrawn from the universe, and the world became dark. Then Arundhati said to Vasistha, 'I fear that the naked ascetic who came here was Siva, for he did not lose his control or become angry although he was struck by hundreds of weapons. And the mountain woman with him was my sister, Parvati. May we two who participate in the householder stage heal the body of Siva and cause this darkness to vanish.' Vasistha said, 'So be it', and because of that Siva's body was restored.... " -- Siva Purana, Dharmasamhita 10:96-8, 163-8, 193-202, 213-14; cf. Kurma Purana (1818), 2:37:33-9. (Bib. Ind. 2:38, pp.727-8.)
  
  
  
  HOPELESS HINDU GODS ARE PUNISHED FOR RAPE
  
  Lord Brahma, Visnu & Siva rape Anasuya and are cursed. This is also an origin of the holy Shiv linga as Siva is cursed to be worshipped as the linga (phallus):
  
  "One day the sage Atri was performing tapas with his wife Anasuya. Brahma, Visnu, and Siva came and offered him a boon, but Atri remained silent, meditating. Then the three gods went to Anasuya. Siva had his linga in his hand, Visnu was full of erotic feeling, and Brahma was beside himself with desire, saying to Anasuya, 'Make love with me or I will die.' When she heard this coarse speech, Anasuya made no reply, for, although she feared the anger of the gods, she was true to her husband. But they were overcome with delusion, and they raped her by force. Then she became angry and she cursed Siva to be worshipped as a linga, Brahma to be worshipped in the form of a head, and Visnu to be worshipped as feet, in order to ridicule them all, and she cursed them all to be reborn as her sons. Because of this, Siva was reborn as Durvasas."
  
  -- Bhavisya Purana 3:4:17:67-78.
  
  
  
  
  LORD BRAHMA LUSTS SIVA'S WIFE & THOUSANDS OF YOGIS ARE BORN
  
  Brahma instantly becomes the dad of thousands of ascetics; the following takes place at Lord Siva's wedding: "Brahma saw the beautiful face (or feet) of Parvati at the wedding, and he became excited and shed his seed upon the ground. In fear of Siva, he began to make the seed barren, but Siva said, 'Brahma, you should not kill Brahmins, and these are great sages.' Then 88,000 tapasvins were born from the seed, and they ran around Brahma calling him 'Daddy, daddy!' " -- Brahma Purana 72:18; Vamana Purana 27:56-9; cf. Siva Purana, Jnanasamhita 18:62-8; Siva Purana 2:3:49:3-10; Skanda Purana 1:1:26:15-22.
  
  
  LORD BRAHMA'S INCEST
  
  "Brahma desired Sarasvati and went to her, asking her to stay with him. She, being his daughter, was furious at this and said, 'Your mouth speaks inauspiciously and so you will always speak in a contrary way.' From that day, Brahma's fifth head always spoke evilly and coarsely. Therefore one day when Siva was wandering about with Parvati and came to see Brahma, Brahma's four heads praised Siva but the fifth made an evil sound. Siva, displeased with the fifth head, cut it off. The skull remained stuck fast to Siva's hand, and though he was capable of burning it up, Siva wandered the earth with it for the sake of all people, until he came to Benares." -- Siva Purana, Jnanasamhita 49:65-80.
  
  
  Another version:
  
  "Brahma desired his daughter and took the form of a stag to pursue her as a doe. The Brahmins called him to shame, and Rudra shot him with an arrow. The deer's head came away from Brahma's body and became a constellation in the sky. But then Gayatri and Sarasvati [the wives of Brahma] had no husband. They performed tapas for Siva, and he agreed to revive their husband, giving Brahma the four heads of Nandin and others of his hosts. Brahma arose and praised Siva." -- Skanda Purana 3:40:1-59.
  
  More of Lord Brahma's (Prajapati's) incest:
  
  "Prajapati desired his daughter and made love to her. This was a sin in the eyes of the gods, who said to the god who rules over beasts [Pasupati, Rudra], 'He commits a sin, acting in this way towards his own daughter, our sister. Pierce him.' Rudra took aim and pierced him. Half his seed fell to the ground. The gods cured Prajapati and cut out Rudra's dart, for Prajapati is the sacrifice. To utilize [the seed], the gods said, 'Take care that this may not be lost, but that it may be less than the oblation.' They gave it to Bhaga to eat, but it burnt his eyes and he became blind. Then they gave it to Pusan to eat, but it knocked out his teeth. At last they gave it to Savitr [the sun] and it did not injure him, for he appeased it." -- Satapatha Brahmana 1:7:4:1-7.
  
  There are many instances of incest in sacred Hindu scriptures; these are not the only ones.
  
  
  
  
  HINDUS CAUTIONED NOT TO FOLLOW INCESTUOUS EXAMPLES OF THEIR GODS
  
  "It is the very nature of women to corrupt men here on earth; for that reason, circumspect men do not get careless and wanton among wanton women. It is not just an ignorant man, but even a learned man of the world, too, that a wanton woman can lead astray when he is in the control of lust and anger. No one should sit in a deserted place with his mother, sister, or daughter; for the strong cluster of the sensory powers drags away even a learned man." -- Manusmrti 2:213-215.
  
  Watch out Hindus....don't ever sit next to your mom, sister or daughter.....you never know what could happen! You don't want to end up doing what Lord Brahma did to his daughter/wife.
  
  
  
  
  KRTTIKAS & PARVATI SWIM IN LORD SIVA'S SEMEN
  
  Parvati drinks Lord Siva's semen & becomes pregnant with a 6-headed boy:"Siva made love to Parvati for a thousand years, without pause, and when the gods came to see Siva, the gate-keeper dismissed them and sent them back. After another thousand years, the gods were frightened and sent Agni to find out what Siva was doing. Agni took the form of a parrot and entered and saw Siva lying on the bed with Parvati. When Siva saw the parrot he was a bit angry, and he said, 'I have shed half of my seed in Devi, but now that she has become embarrassed she is no longer passionate. You, Agni, must drink the other half of the seed since it was you who caused the obstacle.' Agni drank the seed of Siva and distributed it among the bodies of all the gods, but the seed split open their stomachs, and the hot golden liquid spread out in Siva's hermitage and formed an enormous lake full of golden lotuses. Hearing of this, Parvati was full of curiosity and went there to play in the water. Then, wishing to drink the sweet water, she said to the six Krttikas, who were bathing there, 'I want the water that you have taken up in that lotus petal and are bringing home.' They said to her, 'If we give you this water, a child will be born from it. Let him be our son, too, and bear our name.' Parvati said, 'How can one born from my body be your son?' They said, 'Let us create his upper limbs.' She agreed, and she took the golden water and drank it, and it broke out through the right side of her womb as a six-headed boy, Skanda." -- Matsya Purana 158:27-50; Padma Purana 5:41:118-42; cf. Haracaritacintamani 9:196-221.
  
  Another version:
  
  "When Siva had placed his seed in the mouth of Agni, Agni was ashamed and heated by the seed, and he threw it into the waters of the Ganga. She, burnt by the seed, placed it on her bank, and the six wives of the Seven Sages came there to bathe. Pained by the cold, they thought the blazing seed was fire, and they warmed themselves, but the seed entered them through their buttocks. Then, because of its great tapas, the seed broke out of their stomachs and the six parts joined as one six-headed child. They were all very worried and afraid of the sages, because they had gone before the fire, and they threw the child on the top of the white mountain among the reeds." -- Skanda Purana 5:1:34:60-6.
  
  
  
  HINDU GODS RAPE GAUTAMA'S WIFE
  
  "Formerly the gods lusted for Gautama's wife and raped her, for their wits were destroyed by lust. Then they were terrified and went to the sage Durvasas [an incarnation of Siva], who said, 'I will remove all your defilements with the Satarudriya Mantra [an ancient Saiva prayer].' Then he gave them ashes which they smeared upon their bodies, and their sins were shaken off." -- Padma Purana 4:101:174-9.
  
  
  
  
  LORD SIVA GETS THE OTHER HINDU GODS PREGNANT
  
  "The gods came to Siva and said, 'We have all become pregnant and are lactating. Your seed is burning our bodies and we are a laughing-stock, for we are men who have become pregnant. Help us.' Siva smiled and said, 'But this is what you wanted. You did not want a son born in the belly of Devi, and so you yourselves have become the place of the embryo." -- Saura Purana 62:5-12.
  
  
  
  
  HUNGRY HINDU GODDESSES EAT SIVA'S BALLS & SAY 'DELICIOUS'
  
  Foolish Hindu Goddesses ravenously eat Lord Siva's testicles:
  
  "The demon Ruru with his army attacked the gods, who sought refuge with Devi. She laughed, and an army of goddesses emerged from her mouth. They killed Ruru and his army, but then they were hungry and asked for food. Devi summoned Rudra Pasupati and said, 'You have the form of a goat and you smell like a goat. These ladies will eat your flesh or else they will eat everything, even me.' Siva said, 'When I pierced the fleeing sacrifice of Daksa, which had taken the form of a goat, I obtained the smell of a goat. But let the goddesses eat that which pregnant women have defiled with their touch, and newborn children, and women who cry all the time.' Devi refused this disgusting food, and finally Siva said, 'I will give you something never tasted by anyone else: the two balls resembling fruits below my navel. Eat the testicles that hang there and be satisfied.' Delighted by this gift, the goddesses praised Siva." -- Padma Purana 5:26:91-125; cf. Linga Purana 1:106:1-27; Matsya Purana 252:5-19, 179:7-186; Kurma Purana 1:16:141-222.
  
  
  
  FOOLISH HINDU GODDESS LAXMI DWELLS IN COW DUNG & URINE
  
  Laxmi is also known as Sri. She must be smelling like total sh1t by living in cow dung & urine for so long:
  
  "The goddess of fortune (Sri) left the demons and went to the gods. After many years she went to the cows and asked to dwell within them; at first they refused, since she was so inconstant and fickle; at last she said, 'No part of your bodies is disgusting; let me live somewhere in you.' The cows agreed to let her dwell in their urine and dung." -- Mahabharata 13:81:1-86.
  
  
  
  LORD INDRA THE RAVENOUS DOG-EATER
  
  Lord Indra, although the King of Vedic Hindu Gods, is a totally hopeless character:
  
  "[Indra:] 'Because I was in desperate straits, I cooked the entrails of a dog, and I found no one among the gods to help me. I saw my woman dishonoured. Then the eagle brought the honey (soma) to me.' " -- Rig Veda 4:18:13.
  
  
  
  
  LORD INDRA RAPES GAUTAMA'S WIFE
  
  ".... Indra raped Ahalya and was cursed by her husband, the sage Gautama, to lose all his prosperity ...." -- Brahmavaivarta Purana 4:47:11-45.
  
  
  
  
  
  INDRANI THE SLUT
  
  Lord Indra's wife the Goddess Indrani is a total bimbo:
  
  "[Indrani:] 'No woman has finer loins than I, or is better at making love. No woman thrusts against a man better than I, or raises and spreads her thighs more.' " -- Rig Veda 10:86:6.
  
  
  
  
  LORD INDRA SEDUCES GAUTAMA'S WIFE & HAS BALLS FROM A RAM
  "Indra took the form of Gautama to seduce Ahalya, saying to her, 'I am in the power of Kama. Give me a kiss and so forth.' But as she was worshipping the gods she told him that he had chosen an inappropriate time. He said, 'Enough of this talk of what is done and what is not done. You should obey your husband, especially in the matters of sex. Give me an embrace and so forth.' Then he embraced her and had his pleasure of her, but Gautama knew what had happened by his powers of meditation, and he hurried home and cursed Indra, saying, 'Since you have acted in this way for the sake of the yoni (female-sexual-organ/vagina), let there be a thousand of them on your body, and let your linga fall.' Then Gautama went to do tapas, and Indra, full of shame, stood in the water for a long time, praising Devi in her aspect of Indraksi ['Eyes of Indra']. When she offered him a boon he asked to have his deformity cured, but she said, 'I cannot destroy the evil born of a sage's curse, but I can do something so that people will not notice it: you will have a thousand eyes in the middle of the yonis (vaginas), and you will have the testicles of a ram." -- Padma Purana 1:56:15-53.
  More on Lord Indra:
  
  "Indra lost his virility. The gods used the ram, the male goat, and the bull as recompense. And therefore the bull is sacred to Indra." -- Satapatha Brahmana 12:7:1:10-12; 5:2:3:8.
  
  
  
  
  LORD SIVA & LORD VISHNU HAVE SEX WITH EACH OTHER
  
  Mohini ['The Enchantress'] is a famous apsaras (celestial nymph) of Lord Indra's harem. Although usually the apsarases are real and usually created by the gods for the purpose of distracting enemies or ascetics, Lord Vishnu himself sometimes takes a form to look like the nymph Mohini to delude the demons during battle:
  
  "Visnu took the form of the apsaras Mohini in order to beguile the demons and to steal the Soma back from them. Having accomplished this, Visnu was approached by Siva and Parvati, and Siva asked him to display the seductive form which he had assumed for the demons. Visnu became Mohini, and Siva immediately ran after her, abandoning Parvati who stood with her head lowered in shame. Siva embraced Mohini by force, and his seed fell upon the ground. Mohini disappeared and Siva returned to Parvati."
  
  -- Brahmanda Purana 4:10:41-77.
  
  
  
  HOW LORD HANUMAN (THE MONKEY-GOD) WAS BORN
  
  "One day Siva saw the Mohini form of Visnu. He was struck by Kama's arrows and let fall his seed. The Seven Sages put the seed in a pot and they infused it into the daughter of Gautama through her ear. In time, Hanuman, the monkey-god, was born from it."
  
  -- Siva Purana 3:20:3-7.
  
  
  
  HINDUISM'S AMAZING METHOD OF TURNING 'USED' WOMEN BACK INTO VIRGINS
  A sexual ritual is prescribed to purify a woman who has committed sexual sins:
  
  "A woman who has been unchaste should worship Siva in his calm aspect, Siva who is Kama. Then she should summon a Brahmin and give herself to him, thinking, 'This is Kama who has come for the sake of sexual pleasure.' Andwhatever the Brahmin wishes, the sensuous woman should do. For thirteen months she should honour in this way any Brahmin who comes to the house for the sake of sexual pleasures, and there is no immorality in this for noble ladies or prostitutes." -- Matsya Purana 70:40-60; cf. Mahabharata III:2:23.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Thu Nov 13 23:06:40 EST 2003
  
  Can you tell the stories of Mohamed who fukked a six year old girl or raping his son's wife?
  
  Can you tell some more stories of Virgin Mary who had a son or the SEX episodes of POPES?
  
  
• From: Suresh (@ ) on: Wed Sep 15 13:12:54
  
  
  All religions had it's good parts and bad. Religions where built by intellectuals who the people trusted or where made to accept either by persuation or stick. It all worked ok as long as the people where within their boundaries and regions. Now with the advent fast means of transportation and media we as humans have to grow first tolerance, understanding and acceptance of others differences. Each of the religions have to overcome their evils and embrace the differences and reconcile to co-exist or perish due to its own religions inflexibilities. Religions help the functioning of society, sometimes they work well, sometimes they don't. When it does not work well it turns out to be like tumor/cancer. The very nature that sustains life gets threatened by its own internal making. The people who follow religions job is to make it continue to function well.
  
  Just like the cancer brings the whole body down the hatred, dislike and inflexibility of religions to grow and evolve will eventually end the very life.
  
  

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