Topic started by Indian (@ newgw4.me.iastate.edu) on Sat Oct 5 17:14:30 .
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`Brahmins do not have monopoly over temple puja'


New Delhi Oct. 5. In a judgment of far-reaching consequences, the Supreme Court has ruled that Brahmins do not have monopoly over performing puja in a temple and said a non-Brahmin, properly trained and well-versed in the rituals, could be appointed as a pujari.

``As long as anyone well-versed and properly-trained and qualified to perform the puja in a manner conducive and appropriate to the worship of the particular deity, is appointed as santhikaran (pujari) ... , no valid or legally justifiable grievance can be made in a court of law,'' the court said on Thursday.

This ruling was given by a Bench comprising Justice S. Rajendra Babu and Justice Doraiswamy Raju, while upholding the appointment of a non-Brahmin as pujari in Kongoopilly Neerikode Siva Temple at Alangad village in Ernakulam, Kerala.

Justice Raju, writing for the Bench, said no doubt only a qualified person well-versed and properly trained for the purpose could perform pujas in the temple, since he had not only to enter the sanctum sanctorum but also touch the idol.

``It therefore goes without saying that what is required and expected of one to perform the rituals and conduct pujas is to know the rituals to be performed and mantras, as necessary, to be recited for the particular deity and the method of worship or ordained thereof,'' he said.

The court said that if traditionally or conventionally, in any temple, all along a Brahmin alone was conducting pujas or performing the job of santhikaran, it might not be because a person other than the Brahmin was prohibited from doing so because he was not a Brahmin. It might be because others were not in a position and, as a matter of fact, were prohibited from learning, reciting or mastering Vedic literature, rites or performance of rituals and wearing sacred thread by getting initiated into the order. ``Consequently there is no justification to insist that a Brahmin or Malayala Brahmin in this case, alone can perform the rites and rituals in the temple, as part of the rights and freedom guaranteed under Article 25 of the Constitution and further claim that any deviation would tantamount to violation of any such guarantee under the Constitution,'' Justice Raju said. The court said the vision of the founding fathers of the Constitution to liberate society from blind and ritualistic adherence to mere traditional superstitious beliefs sans reason or rational basis has found expression in the form of Article 17 of the Constitution.— PTI

Responses:

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• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Wed Oct 9 09:18:09
  
  Muthukaruppan Chettiar,
  
  May be this is a special condition faced by my friend.But the point i wanted to make to Milton was whether he thinks it as right(leaving the 'parents' there meant the ancestral culture ..he has taken a literal meaning of that and replied that there was no bar!).
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Wed Oct 9 09:21:32
  
  ///Maybe the first one is possible. But I wonder you know better than me about my own community.//
  
  First one is very much a possibility my dear Milton. About the second part of your statement, aren’t we many times ignorant about our own history until someone points that out? Atleast on St.Xavier and his methods of conversion , there are lots of sources which point out to the beastly methods followed by St.Xavier and the Portughese to convert the fishermen community whom they called with the contemptuous word ‘heathens’!
  
  This is what a Christian site says about St.Xavier.You can go to the site at http://members.tripod.com/~Berchmans/latin.html and see for yourself the other 'tricks' committed by De Nobili to convert Tamilians:
  
  "The achievement of St. Francis Xavier, who came to India in 1542 as a missionary, was phenomenal. Yet it must be admitted that he knew very little about the genius and wealth of the Indian culture. He even relied greatly on the power of the civil arm, and favored the Inquisition to promote faith. If this was the case with Xavier, it was worse with many who followed him.
  
  The Inquisition for India was established in Goa in 1560. Many people were burned alive. The Christian God, in whose name these were done, was considered by many as a punitive God of vengeance and wrath. Only in 1812 was the inquisition abolished, and all religious cults allowed to enjoy equal toleration. "
  
  Dear Milton, I am not for demolishing your belief in the Sainthood of St.Xavier or the stories, which have been circulated by the church on his ‘noble’ deeds (and the miracles attributed to him during his lifetime and after …even to a picture of him bought from Portugal in the late 17th century!!). Infact, I am hesitant to do that, as I believe that whether one is truly a Saint or Demon, if you worship with a good attitude, you get the results including the miracles, as such acts seem to function with some occult laws unknown to modern science.
  
  However, I am pointing out this to refute your saying that the Fishermen community of KK District got converted due to discrimination and by the ‘noble’ deeds of St.Xavier.
  
  Your Story on Xavier staying among the fishermen community of Kanyakumari district is a myth spread by the church ... Infact evidences suggest otherwise. At one place i saw a Christian Historian of Goa mentioning that the fishermen of Tamilnadu got converted to Christianity to protect themselves from Muslims:
  
  "...Similarly, when Xavier moved further South, he organized the Paravas of the Fishery Coast who were pearl divers. They sought Portuguese protection against their Muslim foes, and in gratitude for this protection had embraced Christianity en masse. However, a shortage of priests and catechists reduced their instruction in the Faith almost to nil, and hence they were just nominal Christians.." by Prof.Anne Menezes of Goa.
  
  The fact that St.Xavier had only contempt for Indians, dark coloured Indians is evident from various sources (mostly his letters to St.Ignatius, his Spaniard friend who later became a Saint). This is what Mariano Jose Dias has to say on a book review of The Letters And Instructions of Francis Xavier by M. Joseph Costelloe:
  
  "viewed from the Indian perspective, they make poor reading, as an echo of a distant but odious past, reminiscent of a dark age in Christian history, characterized by dehumanization and alienation from the mainstream of Indian values. This denies them of any relevant missiological relevance in the present environment of dialogue between Christians and non-Christians.
  
  The saint's antipathy for Indians is almost obsessive and borders on phobia for reasons that are not difficult to unravel. He shared with his colleague, Fr. F. Henriques, in his letter of 22nd October 1548 (211) his conviction that few, whether white or blacks, - note the emphasis on colour and the clubbing of Indians with blacks - go to paradise from India. This is an outrageous claim he was least qualified to advance, with his very limited knowledge of India.
  
  He was, however, more enthusiastic with the Japanese and Chinese whom he praises lavishly and whose white colour he specifically mentions in his letters from Cochin of 29th January 1552 to his companions in Europe (341) and to St. Ignatius (347). One shudders at the plans that Xavier entertained of almost deserting the Indian mission when he wrote from Kaoshima, Japan, on 5th November 1554, to his companions in Goa, to be ready to go to Japan.
  
  It is not without sadness that one observes that the great apostle of the east had this negative outlook towards India that the late Fr. Monchanin hailed as the 'Land of the Trinity.' Yet his letters will continue as authentic witness of the western missionary enterprise in India and other areas around it. "
  
  Again this is from a Christian, M.D.David author of Western Colonialism in Asia and Christianity who mention this:
  
  "..A particularly grave abuse was practiced in Goa in the form of 'mass baptism' and what went before it. The practice was begun by the Jesuits and was alter initiated by the Franciscans also. The Jesuits staged an annual mass baptism on the Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul (January 25), and in order to secure as many neophytes as possible, a few days before the ceremony the Jesuits would go through the streets of the Hindu quarter in pairs, accompanied by their Negro slaves, whom they would urge to seize the Hindus. When the blacks caught up a fugitive, they would smear his lips with a piece of beef, making him an 'untouchable' among his people. Conversion to Christianity was then his only option.."
  
  
  This barbaric method of conversion which made the Muslims look better is said to have been either initiated or atleast supported by St.Xavier. This is what St.Xavier wrote about his conversions:
  
  "..As soon as I arrived in any heathen village, when all are baptized, I order all the temples of their false gods to be destroyed and all the idols to be broken to pieces. I can give you no idea of the joy I feel in seeing this done."
  
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Wed Oct 9 09:23:09
  
  St.Xavier is said to have written to the Portughese King to continue the Inquisitions against the native Indians. I got a mail from a friend who says that St.Xavier turned his attention to fishermen after his attempts at converting the( so called) higher castes have been foiled .I am reproducing some portions of the mail which particularly focuses on what is called "Hindu Portugese Treaty" It was signed in the 16th century. Here is the gist:
  
  “…..Initially Xavier wanted to convert ONLY the Brahmins - that too Konkanastha Brahmins [he considered all else black and ugly and wrote so openly. He wrote that the others have a heart as black as their visage and skin], who live around Goa. His attempts failed. So, he instigated, with the explicit approval of Vatican and the support of Portughese military, violence against them. Scores of Brahmin men were burnt, while their women were forcibly taken by the Portughese and the forcibly converted Brahmins and others. This unleashed so much terror and the Konkanastha Brahmins [and some Sarasvat Brahmins too] fled to Maharashtra and sought Maratha support. Yes, the same Marathas, whom the missionaries dubbed as "low castes". Marathas were patriotic Hindus and agreed to support. An invasion of Goa by the Marathas and the breakaway Sarasvat Brahmin regiment and also the Vidharbha Brahmin regiment [Maharashtra Brahmins, unlike their cowardly Tamil counterparts, had GUTS] was imminent. The Portughese developed cold feet, after a few initial setbacks in the battlefield. Most importantly because their field guns were still in transit on the high seas and wouldn't reach for another 4 months. Even after they reach, they had to dry the cannon powder and that being the beginning of monsoon would postpone their utility by another 4 months. Portugese knew what this meant. A few defeats at the hands of the Marathas would start local rebellion by the Hindus. Most importantly, it would invite an invasion by the British, who were desperately trying to get a foothold in India and had their forces in Kabul and Iran already. [Well the latter fear turned out to be an exaggerated one historically, as the British never started a military campaign for another 100 years in India].
  
  This forced the Portugese [and that includes Xavier, his church and the Vatican as co-signatories] to sign that treaty with the Marathas. They agreed to stop the killing of Brahmin men. It is there in writing.
  
  And only after this, Xavier and his men started targetting the so-called lower castes. In particular, the fisherman community. Those fishermen who refused to covert, were attacked on the Malabar coast by the Portugese navy, as they returned with catchment. Entire fishing boats were set ablaze, as their women and children helplessly watched from the shores. Those fishermen who jumped into the water to save their lives, were either bayonetted or shot dead. This process went on for 36 years, by which time, a lot of terrified fishermen, whole villages that is, converted to Christianity….”
  
  Commenting on the atrocities of St.Xavier , a Christian historian Dr. T. R. de Souza mentions this:
  
  " At least from 1540 onwards, and in the island of Goa before that year, all the Hindu idols had been annihilated or had disappeared, all the temples had been destroyed and their sites and building material was in most cases utilized to erect new Christian Churches and chapels. Various viceregal and Church council decrees banished the Hindu priests from the Portuguese territories; the public practices of Hindu rites including marriage rites, were banned; the state took upon itself the task of bringing up Hindu orphan children; the Hindus were denied certain employments, while the Christians were preferred; it was ensured that the Hindus would not harass those who became Christians, and on the contrary, the Hindus were obliged to assemble periodically in Churches to listen to preaching or to the refutation of their religion."
  
  
  
  You have asked me a question about what i will do if my ancestors have converted and when there is no escape. The answer is probably i might also feel the same way...I dont blame you for your post at all. Recently i was reading through an article written by Koenraad Elst, a Christian with a good heart similar to you.. he criticises the Hindutvaists on the same footing as he criticises the church :
  
  http://pws.the-ecorp.com/~chbrugmans/articles/missions.html
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Wed Oct 9 09:57:33
  
  Milton,
  
  //First of all you are twisting my whole posting by saying I supported conversion .Let other forum hubbers read my earlier post and decide whether I supported conversion or not
  
  If you are not supporting Conversions, then i will be the first person to support you!
  
  //If I want to convert to another relegion ,first I must realise that is the better path for relegious life than my current path .//
  
  Here where we differ, conversion as is understood and done by semetic religions like christianity and Islam is not at all required for choosing a better spiritual path(by Hindus as we feel that being a Hindu you can follow any path that suits you and there is no bar in worshipping Jesus Christ or even Allah!).
  
  
  
  
  
• From: mmc (@ netcache.spectranet.com) on: Thu Oct 10 10:10:59
  
  Once a philosopher met a mentally deranged beggar on the streets...he took pity on him , went to him and said dont worry, you and I are the same , the same Atman resides in both of us.
  
  The MDB asked , "Aiyaa thangal solvathu unmaithana? Neengalum nanum ondruthana??".
  
  The Philosopher replied, "Yes, brother.You and I are the same!".
  
  The MDB immediately jumped on the Philosopher and started tearing his dresses and started pushing to the garbage dump.
  
  The philosopher got agitated and asked,"Brother ,what are you doing? and why are you doing??".
  
  The 'intelligent'MDB replied, "Aiyaa, thangal thaney nanum neengalum ondru endreergal, piragu thangal mattum en nalla udai uduthi , suthamaga irukireergal???"
  
  ..and continued with his job.Finally the philosopher realised that if at all the message of himself and the Beggar are one has to be actually given to the Mentally deranged person, first he has to save himself...
  
  and he ran away from the paithiyam , saving himself and perhaps he may return one day to save the mentally deranged beggar and show him the real nature.
  
  Philosophers have to be saved from madmen to save the madmen themselves!!
  
  
• From: VP Tiwari (@ ) on: Wed Feb 5 07:44:12
  
  It gives reading. I may like to know such things in future also.
  
  thanks.
  
  
• From: VP Tiwari (@ 210.212.50.2) on: Wed Feb 5 07:45:12
  
  It gives good reading. I may like to know such things in future also.
  
  thanks.
  
  

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