Topic started by destinys_cousin922 (@ 202.149.41.240) on Tue Oct 12 06:51:02 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have always loved enigmatic characters.not becos most of them r losers in the first place but cos they always leave a mystical trail behind them that is overshadowed by the victor...be it vito corleone or jake le motta,othello or macbeth,maradona or mike tyson every one of such characters r embellished in a certain aura and grace....
two such enigmatic characters that occupy an imporatant position in malayalam cinema are sethumadhavan and balan mash.products of the literary finesse of lohitadas and zoomed into the public eye by the once-brilliant sibi malayil these characters have often come in for debates for their trying life-situations and brilliant protrayals.but here are a few observations that according to me sets them apart from one another:
1)while sethu was a young aspiring police-officer who gets labelled as a rogue balan mash was a family man with certain conservative fulfillments who gets deemed as a "nutcrack".so their initial reaction to the repurcussions sorrounding them were soft and animated respectively.
2)the people who labelled balan mash as a "mad person" were people who knew him and his family for a long time,while sethu's case was an example of people in a new locality reacting spontaneously to a superhero in their vicinity.so while balan mash's character tries to repair his image wot sethu does is try to present his actual face to the audience.
poignant and wonderfully told,the common thread however that holds these characters together is how a person gets encompassed in a sphere of weirdness due to a certain societal misconception.but despite the presence of this resonating factor both the protrayals r a fine example of how subtelity can uplift a morbid subject to unassailable heights............
a tribute to two of my favourite losers.take it from here guys.........

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ 203.115.65.182) on: Wed Oct 27 08:09:08 EDT 2004
  
  ak,
  just try picturing this scene.a man and a woman are seated over a coffee table.the woman is hell-bent on proving that the man seated in front of her is a loser.adjacent to this coffee-table is shown a child playing with balloons.the woman asks the man,"how many true friends have u made all your life?"the man knows hes cornered and the camera shifts to the kid who is now shown bursting his balloons.that one visual explains the man's answer to the lady's query.this is wot i meant by "visual coherence".if u have told your story coherently thru your visuals it evokes appreciation from my side.on the other hand if your visuals r induced for mere screen-gloss without aiding the purpose of telling a tale mu answer wud be "NO".
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ 203.115.65.182) on: Wed Oct 27 08:21:23 EDT 2004
  
  and "cinema totality" is achieved only when a certain film has a collimation of such many scenes which truly explains a certain sensibility the director wants to convey.now its totally a director's prerrogative how he wants to tell a story.it maybe the "santosh sivan" way of conveying it visually or a "sathyan anthikad" style of telling it verbose.any path u use the final purpose of a movie is met only when the film is able to achieve conversation with a viewer.
  i respect u for having a mind of your own...but cant resist pinching u for misreading "greatness".dont mistake the above line as a part of my arrogance its just that i am trying to speak my mind too.
  
  
• From: Ak (@ ppp-89-19.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Oct 27 09:03:54 EDT 2004
  
  ok destiny ..:-)) appo root level l thanne nammal 2 perudeyum concept different aanu .. :-))
  
  anyway njaan "visual coherance" use cheyilla.. use cheythaal thanne i don't think kaanunna audience avar parsparam samsarikkunilla enna kaaryam sradikaandu irikkumm ennu.. first visual l thanne avar note cheyumm .. :-) ..
  
  njaan udeshichathu ivarude kannukal aavam , ivarude perumattan aavam , enthellum sequence kal aavam , BGM use cheythu aavum allel ithellam vechu aavum , njaan aa visuals cheyunnathu & pranayathinte intensity kaanikkuka ... allathe ivar thammil parasparam kaanumbo njaan aakashathoode parannu pokunna 2 "inna" parava ye kaanikilla. bcoz ente cinema concept l cinema creation l director de "budhi" kku sthaanamilla .. :-)
  
  so I know ur answer will be "No" .. inni enthaa ippo kooduthal paryakaa.. :-)
  
  
• From: Ak (@ ppp-89-19.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Oct 27 09:05:34 EDT 2004
  
  Raghu,
  
  sorry raghu ... difficult ennullathil nirthaam innu .. baaki naale continue cheyaam .. kure vrithiketta pannikal vannu. :-((
  
  destiny,
  
  thaangalude 2 amathe post vaayichilla .. vaayichu naale reply parayaam .. bye
  
  
• From: raghu (@ 61.95.225.122) on: Wed Oct 27 09:20:22 EDT 2004
  
  // difficult ennullathil nirthaam innu .. baaki naale continue cheyaam //
  AK seriously.. Siby malayil scre^%d up in devadoothan enna ente abhipraayathe punapparishodhippikkaan ithra neenda oru argumentinte aavashyamundo ?
  allenkil, DD ugran film aayathu engineyaanennu thaankal paranjaal ente kure qns: nu answer kittum... :).......
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ 202.149.41.86) on: Thu Oct 28 03:30:10 EDT 2004
  
  ak dear,
  probably u have your reasons for believing that dd,eva and mazhethum munpe r good cinema.but this is wot i feel:for me a "cid moosa" wont do much damage to the sensiblity of a general cinema-watching audience.becos despite the film collecting hugely a large chunk of the audience werent impressed by wot they saw.
  but i strongly believe that a mazhethum munpe,a niram,a nammal,an eva,a balettan r hugely deterrent as far as our cinema is concerned.becos thuough they are for me purely "nothing cinema",they have the power to make a huge section of the audience misbelive as to wot is "good cinema".that is a dangerous trait that these mediocre cinema imparts...
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ 202.149.41.196) on: Thu Oct 28 04:12:26 EDT 2004
  
  //njaan udeshichathu ivarude kannukal aavam , ivarude perumattan aavam , enthellum sequence kal aavam , BGM use cheythu aavum allel ithellam vechu aavum , njaan aa visuals cheyunnathu & pranayathinte intensity kaanikkuka ... allathe ivar thammil parasparam kaanumbo njaan aakashathoode parannu pokunna 2 "inna" parava ye kaanikilla//
  yeah ak,that is all right.there's a scene in "sholay" in which jaya bachachan is shown turning off the lantern while amitabh plays the organ.their eyes meet,no conversation absolutely emanates between them.but still,they seem to say so much to each other thru their eyes,and i was able to interpret it as a viewer becos it was so well-put in the movie.if that is how u intend to say your story underlining on the power of "the unsaid" i have absolutely nothing against it.but if dd,eva,mazheyethum..r your refernce for such cinema i have to put up my hand and say...sorry mate,not my type...
  
  
• From: sid (@ 203.200.157.116) on: Thu Oct 28 04:37:02 EDT 2004
  
  Good discussion.
  I believe a movie should be conceived by a director.It does not happen here where MT or lohithadas write scripts or for sibi malayil movies.There it is the writer who dominates.But for directors like kamal or jayaraj their movies are eventually conceived by them.The writer who gets the credit helps them in achieving their goal.
  Cinema is defenitely a directors medium.TV is more a writers medium.
  movies can be equally interesting being dialog oriented or visual oriented.It depends on the belief of the director.
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 61.95.225.122) on: Thu Oct 28 09:36:00 EDT 2004
  
  // dd,eva,mazheyethum.. //
  DD & EVA - ee 2 films MM umaayittu koottikkuzhakkenda..
  MM valare restrained aayittu edutha oru film aanu..
  absence of tht restriant did DD and EVA in...
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ 202-177-180-102.sify.net) on: Fri Oct 29 02:26:46 EDT 2004
  
  raghu,
  probably u saw something in MM that i didnt see but for me after sitting thru that movie i was left wondering wot was the movie all about?for a movie to work for me it shud either have a great plot or atleast an ordinary plot made worth-watching by using some wonderful moments.mm for me was deficient on either of those 2 areas.pls tell me wot was gr8 abt its plot.a teeny girl supposedly infatuated abt her college teacher who it seems has an unrequitted love for his childhood playmate.he restrains himself from the attractive lady....and then paranoid strikes.now is that a plot??i wud anyday prefer an "azhagiya raavanan" or an "ee puzhayum kadannu" over a MM.EPK for once had a pretty ordinary plot but was very well-told and replete with some wonderful moments.like dileep and manju romancing thru the telescopes.for me MM is also sreeni's weakest screenplay to date..pity he won the state award for such a film..
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ proxy10.sap-ag.de) on: Fri Oct 29 04:17:14 EDT 2004
  
  // EPK for once had a pretty ordinary plot but was very well-told and replete with some wonderful moments. //
  one of the most viloent fights I have seen on malayalam or even Indian screen is the climax fight between dileep and meghanathan. tht scene was made with some imagination...
  
  MM 4 me was very restrained.. a Siby malayil might have ended up making a loud film with people crying all over.. In MM, people were indeed crying all over but it was shot with urmost restraint.. communicated to u verbally or even suggested at times.. Well, I am not saying tht MM is a gr8 film but its execution was very succesful unlike a DD or an EVA.. I thought sreeni really deserved it as I thought the ending to be really poetic.. it was a script with its core totally devoid of all antics we generally associate with a Sreeni script..
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 61.95.225.122) on: Fri Oct 29 04:19:54 EDT 2004
  
  I like senti films a lot... isnt bharatham or dasharatham or kireedom highly sneti films / they indeed are but the senti is not thrust upon you and it flows naturally.. unlike an EVA or nee varuvolam or a pappaydue swantham appoos etc..
  I thought MM was also a film in tht category.. coupled with the fact tht some evoking songs, superb camera work by s kumar etc. i dont mind seeing tht film again and again for the total cinematic experienc eit provides..
  EPK and azhakiya ravanan were definitely good films.. AR was a superb film adn I loved every scene of tht film...
  
  
• From: sid (@ 203.200.157.116) on: Fri Oct 29 04:57:16 EDT 2004
  
  ***MM is also sreeni's weakest screenplay ***
  i agree with u cousin.it looked artifitial.
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ dialpool-210-214-68-75.maa.sify.net) on: Fri Oct 29 08:58:22 EDT 2004
  
  raghu,
  probably we differ here.for me the basic plot of MM was totally unbelievable or artifical as sid put it.i just felt that sreeni pitched the story in a world he didnt properly know..that can happen with any writer i suppose.not just kamal or sibi any director absolutely, any one cudnt have done anything substantial given the weakness of the basic plot in which the movie was put in.as i said we differ here...so lets part amicably over this topic.
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ dialpool-210-214-68-75.maa.sify.net) on: Fri Oct 29 09:22:00 EDT 2004
  
  raghu,
  how do u rate kamaladalam when compared to bharatham,kireedom,thaniyavartanam.i loved it.i thought by the time lal had done kamaladalam he had perhaps reached a stage in his career where he just cudnt do anything wrong.it continued up untill m'thazhu and sphadikam.and i guess then the law of averages just caught up with him...
  i brought up this topic cos just some days back i happened to watch "saagara sangamam" again.i remember watching it as a kid and feeling completely in awe of kamal's performance.but when i watched it the other day,i just felt it slipping away from my conscience.that "mudras-explaining" scene of SS was nowhere near the scene where lal explains those dance-mudras to monisha in kamaladalam.EFFORTLESSNESS is for me the one attribute that defines lal' .pullikkarane-pole ulla oru nadan eneem undaakumo enna chodhyam emphasise cheyunna oru performance aayirunnu athu....
  
  
• From: Udayan (@ ighcache-x1.internetghana.com) on: Fri Oct 29 12:21:20 EDT 2004
  
  I heard MM was lifted from Sundarakantam,a Bhagyaraj movie,not so sure.
  
  
• From: destinys_cousin922 (@ 202.149.41.162) on: Mon Nov 1 05:00:24 EST 2004
  
  falling back on the definition of "enigma" as literature and history suggests i guess nandagopan and chanthu r probably more of an enigma.both of them self-inflict defeats without enagaging in explanation or introspection,cos they believe that they r a much higher state of relative intelligence than the others sorrounding them.also they showed only that part of theirs to the world which they intended to show and kept the rest to themselves..
  
  

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