Topic started by brenda (@ 202.187.24.11) on Tue Feb 24 22:09:39 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

experienced near-deaths or heard from someone else? post it here

Responses:

• From: suresh (@ 61.95.227.151) on: Wed Feb 25 00:22:18 EST 2004
  
  :-)
  
  i very much want to experience it... and i want to share my experience with my people...
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: Marius (@ ti511210a000-0140.dialup.online.no) on: Sat Feb 28 19:29:43 EST 2004
  
  I just saw a television program that I thought was interesting and I think is related to this topic.
  It was about near death experiences. I could tell about a few of the experiences that I found to be especially interesting: A woman with a tumor in the brain is brought in to the surgery, her heart is stopped (when the heart is stoped cease to function) and her body is iced. She has no vital signs - no electrical signals in the brain, and her eyes are taped shut. After the surgery she is brought back to life, and she is able to describe the tool that the doctors used to open her skull (a saw) to the tiniest detail - color, size etc…(which should be impossible as the tools used to operate are all wrapped and covered before the operation, and are not taken out before the patient is sedated) She said she saw her own body from ceiling. She also heard what the doctors said during the surgery (which should be impossible – not only because her ears had plugs in them, but also because her brain did not function) The doctors were unable to get the laser (which is inserted through her veins in the groin) through the veins of in her left leg, because the veins were to small, and had to try the other leg. This she heard, and was able to describe in detail after the operation. She also spoke about a tunnel – with a bright light which she felt drawn to. She went through the tunnel and met her uncle who had been dead since she was 8 or 9, and other people that she knew, and even people she did not know. She said she felt at home and did not want to leave this “place”. She did not feel any pain, and her senses were much clearer then they had been whilst she was in her body. But they told her that she had to go back – that it was not her time yet…
  A blind women is brought in to a hospital (I don’t remember what was wrong with her) But I remember that she had been blind since she was a child. She also floated out of her body – and was able to see what was happening around her. She could see! At first she did not recognize her body – but she saw the ring on her finger, and understood that it had to be her body laying there…. She was also brought back and told about her experience.
  She also told about being in a place were she knew everything…She asked these beings where God is – and they told her she was standing in the breath of God, and she said she remembered a feeling of awe.
  When interviewed she said that she felt death was a terrible lie – there is no death.
  The other person was a businessman – who had a heart attack. His heart stopped and he also had a near death experience that was to change his life. As he went through the tunnel – and came to this place. Where he met what he called “high spiritual” beings. And they told him that everyone was given a skill – but he had been using his skill wrong – he had been using his skill to trick people to earn money for himself…The doctors were able to resuscitate him – and now he is using his life to help other people….
  On of the scientist who did research on near death experiences said that: Traditionally the belief has been that the brain produces consciousness, but this has lead us to believe that maybe the consciousness is not something produced by the body, but is rather something that comes from the outside.
  
  
  
  
• From: God (@ pool-68-236-60-106.phil.east.verizon.net) on: Sat Feb 28 20:38:48 EST 2004
  
  Death is absolute and it is illogical to associate the word "experience" with death. Death is when every bit of your consciousnes ends and there is no turning back. It is a one way "dead-end" street. We may have been burning and burying people before their real death (as opposed to medically defined death) but death itself is where your experience ends.
  
  
• From: bliss (@ wc09.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Tue Mar 2 22:09:08 EST 2004
  
  Its a kind of peace i think. You stop feeling pain, heartache, and anything else negative in this world. Its should be a blissful experience.
  
  
• From: Shakthi (@ 203-195-199-244.now-india.net.in) on: Wed Mar 3 00:07:44 EST 2004
  
  marius,
  
  thats very interesting. I have also read a book about somethigns like these...but seriously dunno how much to believe and how much not
  
  
  
• From: Star (@ dial0-291.dialin.uic.edu) on: Wed Mar 3 01:18:36 EST 2004
  
  "Death is absolute and it is illogical to associate the word "experience" with death. Death is when every bit of your consciousnes ends and there is no turning back. It is a one way "dead-end" street. We may have been burning and burying people before their real death (as opposed to medically defined death) but death itself is where your experience ends."
  
  Everything is in the mind of the believer. When they test medication to determine its effects, quite often a placebo effect results; some of those in the sick group given "blank" tablets/pills recover 100%. This is the same as saying, if two ppl had a cold, I gave one person tomato juice (he thinks its medicine) and the other person flu medicine. For some reason, the person who drinks the tomatoe juice also recovers. But science/modern medicine has no explanation for how mere thoughts can cause the immune system to do its work efficiently. SO imagine, if one believes in God, a force X10000 times stronger than any tiny, lifeless pill, how much greater will the impact be...
  
  
• From: Star (@ dial0-291.dialin.uic.edu) on: Wed Mar 3 01:23:16 EST 2004
  
  *X10000 times stronger than any tiny, lifeless pill which from a medical perspective serves no purpose.
  
  
• From: Marius (@ ti511210a000-0131.dialup.online.no) on: Wed Mar 3 13:17:13 EST 2004
  
  :D
  
  
• From: Marius (@ ti511210a000-0249.dialup.online.no) on: Wed Mar 3 21:55:33 EST 2004
  
  "Shakthi
  
  marius,
  
  thats very interesting. I have also read a book about somethigns like these...but seriously dunno how much to believe and how much not"
  
  These people seemed very sincere and honest - so I trust their experience was real.
  When ever something seems unbeliveble - I ask myself a question; What does this person have to earn on lying? There are many reasons why people would lie, money - to sell books, become famouse etc... To my knowledge none of the persons in the television program I saw aspired for anything of the above mentioned. So I seriously believe they experienced what they say they did...
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Hemant Trivedi (@ 203.195.208.26) on: Wed Mar 3 22:37:42 EST 2004
  
  To me, Death means an OPPORTUNITY to meet with God.!!
  
  
• From: ukw (@ 128.252.181.24) on: Fri Mar 12 19:42:13 EST 2004
  
  I dont know about death as I have not died yet, honestly.
  
  I think it is different to different people and different specific cases.
  
  e.g. 1.
  
  A newborn dies before even he/she learns about God.
  
  In that case,
  
  **Death means an OPPORTUNITY to meet with God.!!**
  
  The above statement is nothing but NONSENSE.
  
  e.g. 2
  
  A old man or woman who lst all his/her consiousness and everything over the time and he/she dies after losing everything.
  
  I am not sure,
  
  **Death means an OPPORTUNITY to meet with God.!!**
  
  the above statement means anything to them either as they were dead already before the real death.
  
  e.g. 3
  
  Someone dies in an Accident and did not even have much time to see their loved ones for the last time. Or someone dies very young leaving his spouse and children.
  
  In this case, I dont know what it means to the person who is dying but his or her loss means a LOT to the LOVED ones. There, it might help them believing in GOD and HEAVEN. Because it really MEANS something to them during that unexpected, unfortunate LOSS.
  
  Even in that case,
  
  *Death means an OPPORTUNITY to meet with God.!!*
  
  The above statement does not make much sense Because leaving your LOVED ONES unexpectedly can never be an OPPORTUNITY to anybody.
  
  
• From: Hemant Trivedi (@ 203-195-212-199.now-india.net.in) on: Fri Mar 12 20:20:01 EST 2004
  
  Hello UKW,
  
  No problem if you cannot agree with me.
  Go in peace my friend.!!
  
  
• From: geno (@ 61.1.201.205) on: Sat Mar 13 04:42:27 EST 2004
  
  Death is simply a biological event, which is incidentally the last of such events that occur in a human's life(or for that matter any being).
  
  The metaphysical and abstract feelings or thoughts, which are usually associated with death stems from the fact that humans FEAR the unknown, which in this case death. The imagination loaded with fear and delirium spirals out of control which results in theorising the 'experiences' of 'after-life'.
  
  Ultimately it is every human beings innate desire that he needs to persist forever witout death in this world, that provides the springwell of ideas and claims of 'experiences' associated with death.
  
  
• From: pg (@ cavalier250.is.temple.edu) on: Sat Mar 13 11:36:37 EST 2004
  
  “Everything is in the mind of the believer. When they test medication to determine its effects, quite often a placebo effect results; some of those in the sick group given "blank" tablets/pills recover 100%. This is the same as saying, if two ppl had a cold, I gave one person tomato juice (he thinks its medicine) and the other person flu medicine. For some reason, the person who drinks the tomatoe juice also recovers. But science/modern medicine has no explanation for how mere thoughts can cause the immune system to do its work efficiently.”
  
  For FHers who would like to learn about clinical trials and how they are ACTUALLY done, here we go:
  
  
  Clinical trials are usually double blinded and have a crossover design. Double blind study means that neither the volunteer participating in the study nor the physician administering the pill knows what is being given – placebo or real medication. Only the administrative authority knows who is being given what. This is to minimize the bias introduced by the knowledge of whether it is a placebo or the real pill. The response to the real pill is compared with the response to the placebo in order to derive quantifiable efficaciousness. In other words, the placebo effect is taken as the baseline against which the real pill effect is measured. After a period of “flushing” the medication out of the body the group that was given placebo is given the real pill and the other group is now given the placebo and the results quantified. This is called a crossover design clinical trial. By subjecting both groups to pill and placebo we are further minimizing the errors introduced by the placebo effect.
  
  The originations of placebo effect although not fully understood, have been studied widely. One of the simpler explanations is the “conditioned reflex” attribute of the placebo effect. We are born with certain reflexes (unconditioned reflexes) and we learn certain reflexes in our lifetimes (conditioned reflexes). It is a complex neuro-physiological phenomenon thanks to our brain and its way of handling things. The following link has a simple pictorial description of the above phenomenon and also explains the placebo effect in a bit more scientific way for curious minds.
  
  http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n09/mente/placebo1_i.htm
  
  ”some of those in the sick group given "blank" tablets/pills recover 100%”
  
  A 100 % recovery is scientifically impossible in a controlled clinical trial whether given the real pill or the placebo. Neither 100 % recovery of all the symptoms nor 100% of all the participating volunteers recovering is a possibility due to the inherent nature of clinical trials where differences in age, gender, race, healthy state, diseased state, food habits, compliance and many other factors of the volunteers have to be accounted for.
  
  
• From: pg (@ cavalier250.is.temple.edu) on: Sat Mar 13 12:00:55 EST 2004
  
  "Ultimately it is every human beings innate desire that he needs to persist forever witout death in this world, that provides the springwell of ideas and claims of 'experiences' associated with death."
  
  Very aptly put geno !
  
  
• From: geno (@ 61.2.225.204) on: Sat Mar 13 15:09:23 EST 2004
  
  ukw,
  
  those were points-to-ponder!
  
  pg,
  
  thanx for all the interesting dtls. about clinical trials :-)
  
  
• From: pg (@ cavalier250.is.temple.edu) on: Sat Mar 13 15:19:25 EST 2004
  
  Thanks for your interest geno. I just wanted to clarify the myth in the previous post, that indicated placebo effects are "miraculous" recoveries where "divine interventions" have played a part.
  
  

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