Topic started by nandakumar (@ galaxyst.singnet.com.sg) on Wed Dec 26 18:02:09 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Brahmin as written in the Scriptures.

Not the psuedo-Brahmins that we find all over.

Responses:

• From: S H I T K I C K E R (@ mcns87.docsis156.singa.pore.net) on: Wed Dec 26 22:55:17
  
  Nanda , don't you know the Swami's claim is absurd.
  
  It is part of Aryan Conspiracy.
  
  If everyone reads only scriptures, begs for living and does not work, India can be safely written off.
  
  This caste system is out-dated and must be abolished immediately for India to unite and prosper.
  
  To give reasons to up-hold the caste system serves only to strenghten the Aryan cause and make the Dravidians and Dalits slaves forever.
  
  
  
• From: S H I T K I C K E R (@ ppp-187-229.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Thu Dec 27 02:44:51
  
  Hey Ali Baba,
  
  You demented P R I C K, looking at you only reinforces the notion about the follies of bringing children in to this world out of wedlock. Please post under your own name.
  
  
• From: Ramadas (@ globalb3.citicorp.com) on: Thu Dec 27 04:04:51
  
  What Swamiji meant was a different thing. It is not in the sense that all Hindus should wear holy thread and put some surnames behind their names to "convert" themselves to Brahmins. The definition of "Brahmana" is one who is very devout, professes either pedagogy or preisthood, is always "Saatwic", pious, and performs his swadharma properly. Swamiji meant that all Hindus would preferebly become like this. The present world identifies Brahmins from surnames or from their parents "Gothram". Not so.. a person who has such and such qualities, whether he is is born to "Sudra" parents can also be called a Brahmin. It is the quality of the human being and not the surname which identifies a Brahmin.
  
  
• From: nandakumar (@ constellation.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Dec 28 19:10:14
  
  Ramadas :" The definition of "Brahmana" is one who is very devout, professes either pedagogy or preisthood, is always "Saatwic", pious, and performs his swadharma properly. Swamiji meant that all Hindus would preferebly become like this. "
  
  nanda : How can all Hindus " profess pedagogy or priesthood?" For the world to function, don't we need the services of other people in our daily lives, esp that of Sudras?
  
  If everyone were to sit around learning and preaching the Vedas, what will happen to our economy ?
  
  
  Ramadas : " The present world identifies Brahmins from surnames or from their parents "Gothram". Not so.. a person who has such and such qualities, whether he is is born to "Sudra" parents can also be called a Brahmin. It is the quality of the human being and not the surname which identifies a Brahmin."
  
  nanda :
  1) Why then aren't the " Brahmins" by surname willing to shed their names esp when their quality has diminished as compared to the real definition ?
  
  2) Who qualifies and certifies a person to a higher caste from which he is born?
  
  3)Where can I go to upgrade my caste?
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 129.212.54.201) on: Fri Dec 28 20:41:36
  
  Nandakumar:
  
  "How can all Hindus " profess pedagogy or priesthood?" For the world to function, don't we need the services of other people in our daily lives, esp that of Sudras? If everyone were to sit around learning and preaching the Vedas, what will happen to our economy ?"
  
  Have you realized the folly in your writing? It is like asking, "What will happen to prison gaurds if everyone gives up crime"? A Brahmin is one who possesses 12 attributes and 6 functions. And while everyone cannot come to that level, only when we set our aspirations higher, can the society itself progress. That is what Vivekananda meant. To give another anology, parents want their wards to go to a good engineering college. Everyone cannot, but if the goal isn't higher, then the reality will never raise itself.
  
  "Why then aren't the " Brahmins" by surname willing to shed their names esp when their quality has diminished as compared to the real definition ?"
  Because, others haven't given up either. More seriously, that is because, as per shastras, a Brahmana is never identified by a surname. Surnames are regional and indicative of heredity from a lineage. Since a Brahmana can come from any family, a true Brahmana may have surnameslike Iyer, Gounder, Chetiar, etc..
  
  "Who qualifies and certifies a person to a higher caste from which he is born?"
  
  Who qualified and certified you in the caste in which you were born? Ok, the government gave a certificate as to OBC/MBC/SC/ST, but who qualified you? Think deeply. Your qualification as a Brahmana is internal. If you cultivate those qualities, then you qualify.
  
  Where can I go to upgrade my caste?
  
  That happens when you are initiated as a Brahmana. Many schools such as Arya Samaj, ISKCOn, Aurobind Ashram etc., do that. But I must also tell you that this certificate doesn't come for a price!
  
  
• From: akshay...non brahmin (@ max4-25.worldaccessnet.com) on: Mon Feb 11 04:43:33
  
  nanda is a stupid fool
  
  
• From: Gods slave (@ bl95e-7.me.iastate.edu) on: Mon Feb 11 20:58:39
  
  Guys know this,
  
  Jesus in the holy Bible says that after him will come many fake prophets who will be so clever and cunning that it will only be possible for real God believing people to find out the difference. He also says that they will come in a sheeps clothing to you and cheat you and thereby prevent you from reaching God almighty.
  
  Mohammad was a fake prophet. There is no doubt about that. He was a schizophrenic guy who thought that he was getting revelations from God.
  
  Muslims say that Mohammad told them that he was the most perfect person ever to be created by God. Can you believe such a nonsense when you see that he married Aisha when she was 6 years old and then started fuc*king her when she was 9 years. Will God almighty sent his most perfect creation or the most complete human being to have sex with a small 9 year old girl clutching a doll when she went to Mohammads bed when she was 9 years old.
  
  Science has proved beyond doubt that the correct age for sex when a girl develops fully is like around 15 or 16 at the least.
  
  In addition to this Mohammad had 11 or 13 wives and among them was a lady who was actually his adopted sons wife and later married to him.
  
  He also has a lot of ladies in his harem. By the way the ladies in his haram were not muslim ladies but rather jewish, christian and pagan ladies who were captured during Mohammad notorious raids on unsuspecting caravans and tribes.
  
  If at all there is a true God who is just and loving to all of humanity then there is no doubt that either Mohammad will be in eternal fire or he must have been punished for his sins to humanity.
  
  These are some websites where Islam as a religion is criticised for its
  anti-humanitarian attitudes like killing infidels or non-believers & lot of
  other interesting stuff which are told in their holy book Quran & Hadiz's which
  are the teachings of Mohammad.
  
  
  << http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/ >>
  << http://www.swordoftruth.com >>
  
  
  If you want to check a website which gives you a very strong case against Islam
  as a religion & why it should be removed from the face of earth, go to this
  website.
  
  << http://www.secularislam.org/links/ >>
  << http://www.answering-islam.org/ >>
  
  Now I will provide you with official Quran websites promoted by Muslims.
  
  << http://www.umr.edu/~msaumr/Quran/ >>
  << http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ >>
  << http://www.islam101.com/quran/quranYusuf/quranYusuf.html >>
  
  To know more about Hadiz's which are teachings of Mohammad please go to this
  website.
  
  << http://www.noornet.com/isw/ >>
  
  After going here click on Hadiz on the left of the window to open 4 hadizes. You
  can doudle check with both the official websites of Quran & Hadiz to know
  whether all criticisms are wrong or not.
  
  Now some interesting things to note. Muslims all over the world say Slavery is
  not there in Islam. Please double check that claim with the website,
  
  << http://www.noornet.com/isw/ >>
  
  Here go to Hadiz first, then go to Sahih Bukhari, then go to,
  No.46 : Manumission of Slaves & please read it carefully.
  
  To know about war booty which Muslims get by defeating an infidel country,
  go to No.53 : One-fifth of Booty to the Cause of Allah (Khumus)
  
  To know how the prophet used to fondle his wifes breast during their menstrual
  periods, please go to,
  
  No:6 : Menstrual Periods
  
  There are lot of other interesting stuff you can read in all the 4 hadizes in
  that website.
  
  One final request. Please make it a point that you go through all the
  anti-Islamic websites with dedication & double check whether all the things told
  there are true or not. Hope you have a wondeful insight into the fastest growing
  religion of the world. Amen.
  
  
• From: Gods slave (@ bl1051-3.me.iastate.edu) on: Wed Feb 13 02:46:26
  
  Try to see Jesus not in the Christian view point but from a humanitarian viewpoint.
  
  If some bodys tell me that the most perfect creation of God in terms of moral, spiritual and superhuman qualities were Jesus of Nazareth, then I am with him.
  
  See his life for example. A man who was honest to his word, loving to both the jews and gentiles, always ministering the use of non-violence, the use of love over hatred to win your enemies and higly moral in life.
  
  Now I have a question for the members or viewers of this forum. Can you even compare Jesus with Mohammad. No, not in hells way.
  
  See Mohammad and his qualities. He authorised the use of force to justify whatever he told was true which was in his holy book, Quran.
  
  See his morality. A dirty third rate pig having 13 wives and an unknown number of ladies forcefully kept in his harem becuase it seems his Allah had told him through a verse in quran that he or other muslims can have sex with infidel ladies and do not need to ask their permission for that.
  
  Did he ever say to use non-violence and love to win over evil. He infact tells us through quran (which is infact this mad pschezophrenic guys word and not God almightys) that the passage to heaven lies beneath the blades of the sword whereas Jesus tells us in the Holy Bible, "Those who take the sword will die by the sword". Compare both of them. phooooo....
  
  You dont need to be a Christian for understanding the difference between a satanic evil person masquerading as a prophet (Mohammad) and a gentle, loving, non-violent and "real" spiritual person(Jesus).
  
  Let me stop by just reminding the 2 most important commandments which Jesus said was imperative in knowing God.
  
  1. Love your God the almighty with all your strength and might.
  2. Love your neighbour like yourself.
  
  When Mohammad was asked the same question (As told in a genuine Hadiz or the sayings of Mohammad) by his followers his reply was,
  
  1. Believe in Allah as the one God (There is no mentioning of loving him)
  2. Do Jihad whenever it is deemed approppriate.
  
  We can understand the fullness of this when we see the Sepetmeber 11 attacks, Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya or wherever there is violence on the part of Muslims to win over an enemy they call as Kafirs (unbelievers).
  
  
• From: TWAT Slapper (@ cpc2-cove4-3-0-cust142.brhm.cable.ntl.com) on: Wed Dec 31 09:59:27
  
  "To give reasons to up-hold the caste system serves only to strenghten the Aryan cause and make the Dravidians and Dalits slaves forever."
  
  Agreed that caste sytem is outdated and should be abolished, but the notion of Aryan cause or conspiracy is stupid. If Aryan is supposedly racial then the majority of India has some Aryan blood and next to nobody is truly Aryan.
  
  
• From: TWAT Slapper (@ cpc2-cove4-3-0-cust142.brhm.cable.ntl.com) on: Wed Dec 31 10:02:52 EST 2003
  
  "A man who was honest to his word, loving to both the jews and gentiles, always ministering the use of non-violence, the use of love over hatred to win your enemies and higly moral in life. "
  
  Jesus was great from what we know of him, contrived or true or lacking somewhat. However the history of Christianity is alien, I could be he would reject the church for all its bigoted, holier than though and opressive ways. Not all churches under chritianity perhaps, but many have a lot to answer for.
  
  
• From: Urme (@ host81-130-109-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Wed Dec 31 10:11:01 EST 2003
  
  
  >>Agreed that caste sytem is outdated and should be abolished<<
  
  I agree too, but we have a problem. Hindus do believe in karma and caste system is closely internitted with Karma, how can one accept one without the other? Caste system might be outdated today, but I feel it will come back. If it comes back, we want to ensure it functions in the right way and that all have a fair deal.
  
  
• From: Star (@ dial0-239.dialin.uic.edu) on: Wed Dec 31 16:02:50 EST 2003
  
  There is nothing wrong with caste system. Caste system is the solution to all problems... why, we can make sudras of all the Muslims and Christian missionaries! Jai Hind!
  
  

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