Topic started by Marius (@ ti511210a000-0236.dialup.online.no) on Thu May 29 11:37:28 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Did you know that the US used 75 tons of so-called dirty ammunition (burnt-out uranium) during the Iraq war... The used it against tank.
Who long will it not take before the contamination is gone - decades...
I - personally think it is a sign of a double set of morals.

Responses:

• From: Jez (@ cache-loh-af04.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu May 29 12:59:07 EDT 2003
  
  Only to a point. They were fighting, and felt that for armed confrontation - not comparable either to a terrorist bomb on civilians or a proper nuke - to be quick, necessitated superior weaponry. America is accused of double standards either way, but any force from a libertarian democracy could be considered a 'double-standard'. Nonetheless IMO sometimes required.
  
  
• From: Marius (@ ti511210a000-0023.dialup.online.no) on: Thu May 29 17:15:18 EDT 2003
  
  But then they will have to warn the locals of the danger areas - which they have to avoid, and then clean up after themeselves. Or else it will be the innocent that again suffer - which they in the first place was there to protect.
  
  
• From: Jez (@ cache-loh-af04.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu May 29 20:19:34 EDT 2003
  
  It doesn't have remotely the capabilities of full nuclear or terrorist attacks, which are the primary concerns that would make it a double standard. The destruction and loss of life including innocents who are incidentally in battle, is the deepest regret of war. They were concerned to overthrow a tyranny which consistently machinated against them. I think the speed of taking and controlling the cities is part testament that they act with concern to restore order and benefit the people. When a democracy is in place, or Iraq is reformed like Japan or South Korea, they will be fully vindicated.
  
  
• From: :) (@ d150-35-51.home.cgocable.net) on: Thu May 29 21:41:58 EDT 2003
  
  "When a democracy is in place, or Iraq is reformed like Japan or South Korea, they will be fully vindicated"
  
  Try telling that to innocent people who lost their families or the innocents that will suffer for years to come from depleted uranium related diseases.
  
  Results of the first war's depleted uranium
  
  http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/dhap99f.html#ARBUTHNOT
  
  http://www.merip.org/mer/mer215/215_peterson.html
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Jez (@ cache-loh-af04.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri May 30 15:23:20 EDT 2003
  
  Marius' idea to ensure people are well informed is good. Sure, apologies and even compensation hardly lessen the personal trauma. There is little else I can say; I am impressed by the removal of Saddam which could only be done with a short war. I hope it is a step to a better, peaceful future.
  
  
• From: Marius (@ 130.67.157.154) on: Fri May 30 19:50:42 EDT 2003
  
  I doubt this is a step for a better future (perhaps for the people of Iraq... - though not for the Western world), I think we will perhaps see an increase in anti-western moods, and a greater increas in the support of terrorist activity...
  My fear is that the Western world will be synonymous with war in the eyes of some people.
  That they will perhaps see it as Christians against Muslims - which is not the case... Even though Bush frequently used God in his speeches.
  I myself am from the Western world - not from the Us or Britain, but from a smaller country, and I hope that people see that our attitude towards the East is not a negative one. Many in the in the Eastern world look on the USA, as quote: "The Big Satan"... Which is sad, the American people are like people in general, no more evil or good than others. They have their national problems, as we have our national problems.
  But I am happy for the Iraq people, that the tyrant that has oppressed for so many years are gone. Let us hope a new one doesn't replace him, and that the various groups of people manage to get together a government - peacefully.
  
  
  
• From: :) (@ d150-35-51.home.cgocable.net) on: Fri May 30 21:26:40 EDT 2003
  
  "perhaps for the people of Iraq."
  
  Is it good for the people of Iraq? Only time will tell. So far the Iraqi people have seen anarchy (I wouldn't want to be living in Bagdad right now for example), imagine if you were sick in Baghdad today, there would be no medical treatment. The Iraqi oil will soon be benefiting Americans, the Iraqis no doubt would get a share, but what percentage? hmmm. only time will tell.
  
  And...who made Saddam, I saw a program on PBS TV that showed that Saddam was under CIA tutelage in the 50s. So much for American foreign policy!
  
  "Which is sad, the American people are like people in general, no more evil or good than others. They have their national problems, as we have our national problems.
  "
  
  But the American govt. has been the cause of problems for many countries, for e.g., their support of dictators in Africa, the excuse was they were making a stand against communism. Well...would it have mattered to the people of Africa. I am sure living under communism would have been much better than living under a US supported democratic (sic) dictator for many Africans. I find the American foreign policy over the decades short sighted, quick fixes which result in long term torture of the local population.
  
  "But I am happy for the Iraq people"
  
  We will have to ask the Iraqi people whether they are happy for themselves. Some would point to the mass killings of shiites (3000 did they say?) over a decade. I wonder how many thousands perished in the bombings over a few days. War can never be justified in this context. If someone wanted to Bomb Tamilnadu for example to rid us of the corrupt Jayalalitha govt. would we agree? No, so....
  
  anyhow, for the sake of everyone in the world I hope peace will soon reign everywhere.
  
  
• From: Marius (@ ti511210a000-0103.dialup.online.no) on: Sat May 31 16:23:23 EDT 2003
  
  I was talking in a long time perspective. As you said, time will tell, Mr : ).
  Yes I know that USA made Saddam - the CIA has supported many such persons, even Osama Bin Laden.
  I agree with you that the American foreign policy leaves much to be desired, and that America hasn't been exactly fortunate with their government. And that their quick fixes are very unfortunate.
  
  It was not just the Shiites that suffered, but also his own people, anyone who uttered a word of opposition got killed - and their family members. They are finding mass-graves with women, small children and soldiers in them. Is the corrupt Jayalalitha govt. at all comparable with the regime of Saddam?
  
  
  
• From: :) (@ d150-35-51.home.cgocable.net) on: Sat May 31 18:43:35 EDT 2003
  
  "Is the corrupt Jayalalitha govt. at all comparable with the regime of Saddam? "
  
  Marius, no it is not, but even if I was under the rule of Idi Amin, I would still not want someone bombing my city and freeing me (either to anarchy or to heaven :)), would you?
  
  
• From: Marius (@ ti511210a001-0150.dialup.online.no) on: Sun Jun 1 12:10:13 EDT 2003
  
  You are right - I wouldn't.
  
  
• From: Jez (@ cache-loh-af04.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jun 2 20:58:01 EDT 2003
  
  They're certainly happy Saddam's gone.
  
  

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