Topic started by Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on Tue Jan 8 15:23:34 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Especially those of you who are big fans of numerology, I'm sure you have answers to this one.

Responses:

• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Tue Jan 8 15:24:36
  
  Let me rephrase the question:
  
  Is rebirth mathematically coherent?
  
  
• From: S H I T K I C K E R (@ 203.145.133.19) on: Wed Jan 9 22:28:58
  
  Expat,
  
  Could you elaborate on the question a little more? I would like to understand your question better.
  
  
• From: fridge (@ netcache1.is.co.za) on: Fri Jan 11 07:54:36
  
  Expat
  Waiting to get a better understanding on your question.
  
  
• From: S H I T K I C K E R (@ 203.145.133.19) on: Mon Jan 14 01:11:55
  
  Happy Pongal
  
  
• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Mon Jan 14 12:02:49
  
  Sorry for the long delay! You’re probably aware of the numerous mathematical relationships that govern nature and the universe. This is, of course, because much of the language of such sciences as astronomy and physics, in abstract terms, is mathematical. My question, then, is if we can use mathematics to describe observable or theoretical phenomena within the constraints of time and space, can we extend the concept to consciousness as well? Consciousness is perhaps the most obvious sign of life. Perhaps, if we were to give consciousness sound theoretical basis, based on mathematical formulas, other than the speculative philosophical notions which have prevailed for so long, there might be doorways for rebirth as well.
  
  
• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Mon Jan 14 14:29:20
  
  Slight correction: based on mathematical equations
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Mon Jan 14 15:46:47
  
  Expat, Thanks for providing me a nice topic for my next story(?). Let me come back with a good reply in a couple of days.
  
  
• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Mon Jan 14 15:54:11
  
  Ranga,
  
  No problem. Good luck with your story.
  
  
• From: S H I T K I C K E R (@ ptil-134-144-ban.primus-india.net) on: Tue Jan 15 10:22:28
  
  Expat,
  
  How will one develop a mathematical model for the consciousness? A theoretical basis for the 'consciousness' based on mathematical formulae can be applied only to something that is measurable. The consciousness is NOT measurable. Even applying the term "infinite" is limited to our physical and philosophical understanding of the term whereas actually the consciousness is more than that. Developing oneself spiritually can help understand it, but by no means can we ever quantify it.
  
  Time and space are only manifestations within. All our definitions are within. The understanding of the nature of the consciousness can only be realized conceptually, not even explained in totality, because the definitions again are a functions of 'our physical world'.
  
  In the physical world all parameters of space-time may be applied to it within the definitions and laws that we perceive it to follow. Astrology, numerology and other occult sciences have been made available to us based on understanding of certain laws which may be perceived differently from the western science as we know it.
  
  
  
• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Tue Jan 15 12:27:12
  
  Kicker:
  
  "The consciousness is not measurable..."
  
  In many ways, it isn't, but in some ways, it is. Take behavior, which is a reflection of the conscious mind. In measuring degrees of behavior, you are also measuring, although perhaps indirectly, the conscious mind as well. Naturally, such measurment is qualitative.
  Behavior, of course, is just one aspect of consciousness.
  
  Psychoanalysis has reduced the conscious mind to three levels: the conscious, the pre-conscious, and the unconscious, with the pre-conscious as borderline, and the ego corresponding to the first, the ego to the second, and the superego to the third. As you have implied, any understanding of these is entirely conceptual, subjective, and can only be validated through further observation/replication.
  
  My problem is that these three "dimensions" of the consciousness, are not at all like the dimensions we deal with in the everyday world, in which axioms can be formed based on spatial analysis. Perhaps you are right. We may be forced to forever deal with the conscious mind on qualitative, as opposed to quantitative, terms. One obvious reason would be that since no two people are alike, and the conscious mind of each individual is subject partly to environment, partly to genetic influences, we can only make generalizations based on broad inferences. Science has obviously done this, but mathematics no. For the sake of clarity, I should point out that such sciences as physics, which reduce the universe to theoretical mathematical constructs, is justified relative to objective. But what about such sciences as psychology, which are still based on largely speculative notions?
  All mathematical notions are subject to the constraints of logic, or what's now more popularly called set theory. Thus, any sort of quantitive relationship that can be reduced to a simple equation stands to be logically justified.
  
  I suppose that in the instances where even science fails to explain certain phenomena, philosophy steps in. But then, what good is philosophy, beyond its correlation to religion?
  
  Perhaps what I'm driving at with this thread is that if there are certain patterns of inference in every the conscious of every individual, and these inferences are based on quantitative measures, then the whole mystery of life would be explained, from personality, to behavior, to death. Imagine if we had a means by which to measure the number of heartbeats an individual is going to make in his entire life. I didn't say cells or neurons because they regenerate. But the heart is constant, in terms of size and function.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Tue Jan 15 12:30:53
  
  the id corresponds to the second
  
  
• From: Expat (@ mail.waldorf.edu) on: Tue Jan 15 14:40:44
  
  dimensions of the conscious mind
  
  

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