Vegetarianism
Topic started by N (@ cache-cro-hsi.cableinet.co.uk) on Sun Dec 22 18:35:04 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I would like to apologise in advance for the following opinion, which I think is a bit mad and excessive. But to hell with it, I wrote it, these are my opinions, and I suppose I should take responsibility for them. Respond as you think fit.
I believe every man, woman and child has a right to eat meat. If a wild animal isn't condemned for eating meat, then why should we be condemned for producing meat for ourselves? It makes no sense to me.
I'm not saying vegetarianism is wrong, but If I want to eat meat I will and I don't have to answer to anyone.
Where did the idea that vegetarianism is an evolution of mankind come from? On what grounds? It is blatantly wrong.
If I was starving, of course I'd eat meat. I'm sure most meat eaters would eat dog or worms if they were starving, but they probably don't choose to do this very often on an everyday basis.
Humans are omniverous and have always eaten meat, except in those societies in which meat was rejected for moral reasons. If we didn't kill these animals they would be hunted by other animals.
Traditional peasant farming methods - ecologically the most sustainable - involve striking a balance between animal and plant foods. Animals are needed to fertilise fields. They can turn unproductive marginal scrub and grass-lands into food.
This is what my a customer who is a doctor says. " If a pregnant woman comes to antenatal clinic and is vegetarian then she becomes a high risk pregnancy. Why? Because the vast majority of vegetarians, particularly vegans, become anaemic as a result of pregnancy and with the high blood loss during delivery, this puts them at risk. Now, I know that there are vitamin and iron supplements out there but there are meat eaters who are pregnant who need to take these so vegetarians often struggle to avoid anaemia in pregnancy. What about non- pregnant people, yes it is true you can try and supplement your diet with tablets and artificial supplements but this is often not that effective and also have side effects. For instance iron causes bowel disturbances. The easiest and most healthy way to maintain a balanced diet is by eating meat. This is no accident, it is the way our bodies are designed. We have enzymes that break down meat and meat products, such as milk, our digestive systems handle meat better than artificial products. I find it confusing that a lot of vegetarians believe in natural health remedies but take artificial ones when it suits them."
People are saying my arguments are unsubstantiated. Iron, Vitamin D, Calcium etc etc. These can all be found aplenty in meat-free foods, but let's face it, meat is a much better source. I don't know any veggie's who eat 12 lettuces and 19 tins of beans a day, and it is quantities like that where you can get the vitamins and minerals.
Why is eating animals more morally wrong than eating plants?? I want a vegetarian to answer this for me. Is it because animals have the ability to feel pain. What has that got to do with it. Increasing plant farming has a far more destructive effect on our environment than animal farming. I personally rate plants and animals equally. If anything plants contribute more to environmental stability than animals. They generate oxygen and consume carbon dioxide and animals do the opposite. We are in ecological equilibrium with plants, do vegetarians want to disturb that?
I think if you treat the two main life groups, plants and animals, equally then if we need both for our health, we should kill them for food equally. Let us not be hypocrites.
Let me tell you, we were designed to eat meat!
From our teeth to our digestive system we are made so that we can eat meat, as well as plants. Eating meat is natural, most animals in the world kill other animals for food.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: brenda gauhary mccallum (@ 202.188.223.11)
on: Sun Jul 20 23:00:07 EDT 2003
in bhagawadh geetha it is said that when a person dwells his money into buying and eating non-vegetarian items,especially red meat, actually possesces inner wild behaviour.
the illustrations in the "bhagawadh geetha as it is" shows human being eating meats and the picture beside it shows the half animal(regarding what animal they consume)and half human features(characters)
- From: alison (@ 1cust21.tnt34.dfw9.da.uu.net)
on: Wed Jul 23 18:03:55 EDT 2003
there is notthing wrong with eating animals ,,,,,i think
- From: mayilvahanan (@ 213.42.2.8)
on: Thu Jul 24 00:19:56 EDT 2003
Are'nt we a bit cruel to certain vegetables. Take for instance..Cocunut - We split open the skin , break the skull, scrape and curette the kernel, grind it in a blender etc. etc. Is'nt that more cruel than just cuttin the head of chicken?
- From: Ramadas (@ dclient217-162-115-14.hispeed.ch)
on: Thu Jul 24 01:31:41 EDT 2003
Alison,
why don't you eat lion, tiger, lizard etc?
- From: mayilvahananpillai (@ an1.emirates.net.ae)
on: Thu Jul 24 02:05:54 EDT 2003
May be the logic is to eat the animal which does'nt eat u..
And a lizard is too ugly to be on the dining table.
- From: mayilvahanan (@ 195.229.241.228)
on: Thu Jul 24 02:06:15 EDT 2003
May be the logic is to eat the animal which does'nt eat u..
And a lizard is too ugly to be on the dining table.
- From: Kajan (@ 24.156.114.180)
on: Thu Jul 24 17:39:54 EDT 2003
>Are'nt we a bit cruel to certain vegetables. Take for instance..Cocunut - We split open the skin , break the skull, scrape and curette the kernel, grind it in a blender etc. etc. Is'nt that more cruel than just cuttin the head of chicken?>
Really ?
Get a readymade cocunut milkpoder from grocery store
- From: neo_morpheus (@ ppp-219.65.96.113.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Thu Jul 24 18:42:40 EDT 2003
If the 'vegetarian' hindutvA samurais consider ex-communicating and ostracizing all "hindoos' who eat meat - as "non-hindoos" and throw them out of 'hindooism" - how many 'hindoos' would remain within the fold? ;)
hey! this seems to be an interesting topic in itself!:-)
any takers?;)
- From: mayilvahanan (@ an0.emirates.net.ae)
on: Sat Jul 26 00:01:24 EDT 2003
Kajan , do u represent Maggi foods?
- From: Joe (@ palo5.pacific.net.sg)
on: Sat Jul 26 01:25:26 EDT 2003
//why don't you eat lion, tiger, lizard etc?//
ramdas,
Why don't you eat Vaikkol(pullu),punnakku,marakattai,paper etc,afterall all these from plants?
- From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sat Jul 26 02:18:18 EDT 2003
brenda gauhary mccallum said:
//in bhagawadh geetha it is said that when a person dwells his money into buying and eating non-vegetarian items,especially red meat, actually possesces inner wild behaviour.
the illustrations in the "bhagawadh geetha as it is" shows human being eating meats and the picture beside it shows the half animal(regarding what animal they consume)and half human features(characters)//
Then Bhagavath Gita contradicts the Rig Veda!
The Vedic people ate ox and cow. I think it is ok for hindus to eat beef and meat as it is prescribed in the vedas. Hindus favouring Vedas should eat cow!
Rig Veda 8:43:11
11 Let us serve Agni with our hymns, Disposer, fed on ox and cow,
Who bears the Soma on his back.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv08043.htm
Manu Smiriti also prescribes meat eating. I can post the lines if wanted here!
- From: mayilvahanan (@ 213.42.2.8)
on: Sat Jul 26 04:12:51 EDT 2003
The brahmins ( vegetarian) of Kolkata has a part of their every day menu, a fish named 'hilsa'.
I think vegetarianism is a narrow concept and applicable to people who sits on their back and talk with all safety and security and peace of mind. It cant be applied to eskimos of the poles who when hungry wont hesitate to split open a friends belly , for survival.
- From: ~ (@ 219.92.215.97)
on: Sat Jul 26 04:15:43 EDT 2003
no comments
- From: Priyamudan (@ pcp01376066pcs.selrsv01.pa.comcast.net)
on: Sat Jul 26 07:28:28 EDT 2003
Mayilvahanan
>> Are'nt we a bit cruel to certain vegetables. Take for instance..Cocunut - We split open the skin , break the skull, scrape and curette the kernel, grind it in a blender etc. etc. Is'nt that more cruel than just cuttin the head of chicken?>>
Do you think your statement is correct. Can you prove that there is a pain involved in splitting the cocunut. I can readily prove there is a pain involved in cutting the head of chicken. Do not talk meaningless
- From: mayilvahanan (@ 213.42.2.8)
on: Sat Jul 26 07:54:49 EDT 2003
Priyamudan.. response to stimulii in plants and animals only differs in style. Dr. Jagdish chandrabose have made extensive research on this subject.
And pain is an abstract feeling. I cant' feel your pain or a chicks pain. Neither u can feel mine or a chick's.
I hope I have made my point.
- From: Roshan (@ 203.115.4.246)
on: Sat Jul 26 08:25:15 EDT 2003
Joe,
>> Why don't you eat Vaikkol(pullu),punnakku,marakattai,paper etc,afterall all these from plants?>>
Ha ha ha That was a very good one?
- From: Roshan (@ 203.115.4.246)
on: Sat Jul 26 08:26:58 EDT 2003
oooops mistakently typed the question mark.
Ok Ramdas sollunga why dont you eat all those stuff you get from plants and trees?
- From: Kajan (@ 24.156.114.180)
on: Sat Jul 26 20:10:08 EDT 2003
>do u represent Maggi foods>
I don't do any business or represent any products.
- From: BIll (@ adsl-70.dacor.net)
on: Thu Jul 8 12:27:57
Abortion is WRONG!!!
Why should those babies have to suffer because of you're stupid actions? Stop having sex!!! You should be gay, but thATS A SIN!
- From: thad (@ pcp02022883pcs.rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net)
on: Wed Oct 13 14:37:07
>>"Humans are omniverous and have always eaten meat, except in those societies in which meat was rejected for moral reasons. If we didn't kill these animals they would be hunted by other animals."
The arguments that "humans are meant to eat meat" or " humans have always eaten meat" are certainly no rational defenses for its continuation. If we were to accept this type of twisted logic, we would also have to say that humans have always murdered, raped, enslaved, and committed other heinous acts that our culture today finds reprehensible. Unlike most other animals, humans can choose what foods to eat. Sadly, our poor choices in the past have ravaged our land; fouled our air and waterways; heaped immeasurable suffering upon other species; and undermined our own health.
>>" Increasing plant farming has a far more destructive effect on our environment than animal farming. "
You're way off on your facts there. Many of the world's massive environmental problems could be solved by the reduction or elimination of meat-eating, including global warming, loss of topsoil, loss of rainforests and species extinction.
The temperature of the earth is rising. This global warming, known as "the greenhouse effect," results primarily from carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels, such as oil and natural gas. Three times more fossil fuels must be burned to produce a meat-centered diet than for a meat-free diet. If people stopped eating meat, the threat of higher world temperatures would be vastly diminished.
Trees, and especially the old-growth forests, are essential to the survival of the planet. Their destruction is a major cause of global warming and top soil loss. Both of these effects lead to diminished food production. Meat-eating is the number one driving force for the destruction of these forests. Two-hundred and sixty million acres of U.S. forestland has been cleared for cropland to produce the meat-centered diet. Fifty-five square feet of tropical rainforest is consumed to produce every quarter-pound of rainforest beef. An alarming 75% of all U.S. topsoil has been lost to date. Eighty-five percent of this loss is directly related to livestock raising.
Another devastating result of deforestation is the loss of plant and animal species. Each year 1,000 species are eliminated due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses. The rate is growing yearly.
To keep up with U.S. consumption, 300 million pounds of meat are imported annually from Central and South America. This economic incentive impels these nations to cut down their forests to make more pastureland. The short-term gain ignores the long-term, irreparable harm to the earth's ecosystem. In effect these countries are being drained of their resources to put meat on the table of Americans while 75% of all Central American children under the age of five are undernourished.
- From: Demi God (@ 219.65.94.235)
on: Sun Oct 17 03:57:34 EDT 2004
Evolutionary Steps -
They say
First mens ate all the meat they could get, including other humans,( called Cannibals.)
Later Humans were not, but all animals were eaten. As civiliaation progressed mens thought of having stock of meat which should get rotten but still can be stored which led to domestication of sheep, hen etc today same is conttinued.
About Flesh - this is how people started and those few patterns are still there.
Many people still think having wild party is having Meat and Alcohol, as the people of 14th and 15th century did.
And about Vegs and Non-Veg people, those are two sects now, opposing each other.
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