Topic started by Nambi (@ cache-cro-hsi.cableinet.co.uk) on Mon Aug 5 17:37:30 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

All,

Recently I had an argument with a guy
from Jehova's witness who was trying to disprove Darwinism. As we know, Darwin produced evidences
to prove human evolution. But that guy said
that many scientists do not agree with Darwinism and it is a myth. He also said the drawings of
Neantherdal men are only made up stories and not true.

I would like to discuss the theory here.

If the theory of Natural selection is wrong, then
did we have the same kind of ancestors million and million years ago as our grand parents?

Did our ancestors have same climate as now millions ago?

What were the languages spoken in that time?

I imagine my forefather at 10,000 million BC
dancing at a discotheque club. Could it be true?

What do you think?

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 16:54:30 EST 2003
  
  Star,
  
  >>I am referring to the "Story of Sumedha" as given in Henry Clarke Warren's "Buddhism in Translations."
  
  I don’t know why you want to peruse this further when it will only trap you in you own arguments.
  
  Just honestly think and tell me, why a previously born Brahman will take rebirth, and that too just to furiously oppose the very belief system that he was expected, in his past life, to support and propagate? Surly he must have remembered the exact details of his “unfinished business” in the past life while he remembered the exact status that he had in his past life!
  
  Perhaps, I sense, you too are going in the regression of never ending contradictions. Star watch out and please be careful!
  
  >>Vishnu spoke to his servant: 'It is time to begin.' Brahma bowed. Vishnu commanded: 'Create the world.'
  
  OK, you have a totally different conception of Brahma(n) than what Pradheep has. Well, this only strengthens my argument against the concept of god. Thank you Star!
  
  So the supreme lord, in your view, is Vishnu and not Brahma(n). Brahma is merely a servant of Vishnu but Brahma and Vishnu are two separate entities. Are they?
  
  Before we really begin, please answer a few simple questions of mine.
  
  1. Are you proposing Vishnu and Brahma as two separate entities entailing the concept of “god”?
  
  2. Where were the couple (Vishnu/Brahma) before they began the show, what exactly were they doing, what ever they were doing? How can you tell?
  
  3. Is there any more (male/female or other) entities who too is/are involved in the entire process (of Creation)?
  
  4. What exactly was/is the purpose of Vishnu and/or Brahma behind this seemingly, chaotic, blind, heedless and wasteful drama?
  
  5. What exact roles did they play in creation of the universe and in the process of (Darwinian) evolution, please state names/identities of entities involved?
  
  6. What makes you believe that whatever you have read/grasped from the Vedic theological literature is true? How did you verify that? Please give the details of the exact processes that you used.
  
  7. Can human brain think autonomously?
  
  8. Are you proposing similar kind of creationism that RW was arguing about “Intelligent design”, but without the bounds of time in thousands of years – i.e. “New-Earth” creationism, which you furiously argued against? If your answer to the question is yes, then you must be arguing for the “Old-Earth” creationism; and there are lots of arguments against that too. Please refer to appropriate web-sites and scientific books on the subject for appropriate answers, I have posted a few relevant links some days ago; and I am sure, you are capable of finding more.
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 16:58:41 EST 2003
  
  Correction:
  
  Just honestly think and tell me, why a previously born Brahman will take rebirth, and that too just to furiously oppose the very belief system that he was expected, in his past life, to support and propagate? Surly he must have remembered the exact details of his “unfinished business” of* the past life, while he remembered the exact status that he held* in his past life!
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 17:09:55 EST 2003
  
  Sorry Star one more question:
  
  Question 9: Please, define in detail, Vishnu and Brahma and any others invoved, according to their characteristics, roles, functions and physical/non-physical/abstract features.
  
  
• From: ukw (@ 128.252.181.24) on: Tue Dec 16 17:47:00 EST 2003
  
  ""There is no nihilism in science, while the transient world is essential to Hindu thought"""
  
  Science evolved by itself and religion was created by people to control dumb-heads. Defending any scientific fact by any religion is always funny and it may just be et another coincidence, thats all.
  
  ""what other religions can make such a claim?""
  
  Well, well, well, now you have expressed yourself and your *stand* very well.
  
  Let me leave the *ball* to Rohit. I am sure he will have a lot to say.
  
  ennai kEttAl, ellAm orE kuttaiyilE URiya mattaithaan.
  
  Anybody (it does not matter whether u r edison or einstein or raman or *amateur* like we-all) who is defending or explaining Science by any 'great' religion will end up looking like a *clown* for sure.
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 18:39:14 EST 2003
  
  Sorry Star one more question:
  
  Question 10: From where did Vishnu get the cobra to ride on and how did he create Brahma and others (if applicable)invoved before the heedless and purposeless process of creation began?
  
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 18:44:49 EST 2003
  
  Sorry Star one more question:
  
  Question 11: If there was nothing, not even space, where did the entire creation-team reside?
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 18:52:18 EST 2003
  
  Star,
  
  I think, it will be much better if you figure out yourself the whole barrage of questions that would follow; and try to get/prepare some credible/verifiable/well supported answers/explanations as for the evidences well in advance!
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Tue Dec 16 19:06:29 EST 2003
  
  Why did Brahma keep the speed of light constant?
  How did he manage to hold the E=mc^2 equation true and why? What are the other scientific laws that Brahma is supposed to have devised? Who (persons/entities or whatever), in the vedic literatures, has the full knowledge of all these scietific laws and theories?
  
  Why is India dependent on the west for almost all scientific and technological knowledge? Even more embarrassingly, more dependent on the language (English) to learn and express scientific knowledge and thoughts?
  
  
• From: TN AvargaL (@ cvg-65-27-251-73.cinci.rr.com) on: Tue Dec 16 19:26:08 EST 2003
  
  Roguehit is very logical. If the words 'turn over' are written on both sides of a paper and given to Roguehit, he will be turning the paper continuously till he dies (or till he goes to China for giving a veera urai).
  
  
• From: TN AvargaL (@ cvg-65-27-251-73.cinci.rr.com) on: Tue Dec 16 19:38:30 EST 2003
  
  We can make it interesting for Roguehit by writing this formula on both sides of the paper.
  
  Total Turnover factor = K (K1 Turnover factor this side - 1/K2 Turnover factor on the other side)
  
  
• From: Star (@ dial0-409.dialin.uic.edu) on: Tue Dec 16 21:13:56 EST 2003
  
  Rohit,
  
  Please read Vishnu Purana. All of you're questions regarding cosmology will be answered. Unfortunately, I could not find an English or Sanskrit version on the Internet to present here.
  
  Regarding the Buddha - he had 28 lives. He could have attained moksha in one of the past lives, but he wanted to come back again. I cannot remember the reason why.
  
  
• From: Rohit (@ cpc1-nfds4-3-0-cust212.nott.cable.ntl.com) on: Wed Dec 17 14:55:06 EST 2003
  
  Star,
  
  >>Please read Vishnu Purana.
  
  Thanks Star. Anyway, not to worry, the story is well known to me and I known, it has no logical and rational answers to any of the questions.
  
  I can clearly sense why your memory is not serving you its defined purpose and keeps tricking you at the critical time.
  
  Any way, over 300 million Southeast Asians, including Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, will not like to agree with you, if you care to consider that fact. ;-))
  
  
• From: ukw (@ 128.252.181.24) on: Wed Dec 17 19:19:52 EST 2003
  
  
  The major problem with Hinduism is that these people bring a new God everyday. The latest one is Sathyasaibaba or something. I guess there are two such Gods. In our country, not only human beings population but also God's population is growing uncontrollably. May be Vishnu purana might have an explanation for that too besides cosmlogy. I am afraid, if it goes like this we must bring some sort of *family planning* for Gods' as well. I am really serious here, we dont have that much room u know?
  
  May God help us not bringing too many Gods to our land as there is no much room already???
  
  

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