Topic started by Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on Sat Aug 3 20:42:07 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The idea of this post if to discuss the importance of keeping a carnatic music archive.

Responses:

• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Sat Aug 3 20:55:52
  
  I recently saw an advertisement for 10 DVD's of video footage of the renowned cricketer Donald Bradman, who peaked in the 1930's and 40's. I came to realize that the 30's and 40's were the prime era for carnatic music as well, but we have no such video footage of any musicians!
  
  Though it is understood that resources were and still are not as readily available in India as they are in other countries, a mere movie film recorder is sufficient to record precious material, namely concerts of the past stalwarts. What is more shocking is the fact that there are hardly three recordings of the mridangam master Palghat Mani Iyer, who died in the early 80's! By then, Madras's movie industry was booming, and movies were produced at the rate of a movie per day! Even worse is the fact that there are NO video recordings of mridangam legend C.S.Murughabhupathy, who died in 1999!
  
  I think that this lack of foresight must be ameliorated and a permanent carnatic music archive should be started (if it has not already). This archive should video tape concerts of the top artists of today, like TNS, TVS, UKS, T.K.Murthy, Guruvayur Dorai, MSG, etc., in their homes and on the concert platform. Such material will be priceless in another 30 years.
  
  
• From: vidya (@ dialup-65.59.35.237.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Mon Aug 5 12:31:46
  
  There are organizations like ananya in Bangalore and sampradaya in chennai - check out sampradaya.org which have a whole lot of recordings.
  
  I think that there would definitely be some in private collections too.All it needs is someone to spread the net and search patiently..
  
  
• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Mon Aug 5 15:02:44
  
  I took a look at the sampradya webpage, and no doubt they have realied the importance of creating an archive for posterity. But they made no mention of archived video recordings, which is THE most useful archival source. With the video recorder, which is easily purchaseable nowadays by an organization like that, they should record concerts of all these great artists and archive them. I think this is by far the most important step to take.
  
  Many of the senior artists are getting old, so time is limited.
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Tue Aug 6 06:31:09
  
  >>Many of the senior artists are getting old
  That's one of the problems with being senior ;-)
  
  Seriously: I heard the other day that Balmurali Krishna wants to embark on a project to record *all* of the Thyagaraja kritis. I think he means CDs, though. I sugest you contact him and suggest that the sessions be video-ed, if not for publication then for an archive. it would be a good idea.
  
  
• From: vidya (@ dialup-166.90.237.240.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Tue Aug 6 12:07:51
  
  I remember reading an interview of either Allepey venkatesan or gita raja about 2 -3 years back where they said they were planning to focus on video archives too.They might have done something on that front though the webpage does not give that many details.
  
  Also check out samudri.org and http://ananyamusic.com
  
  
  
• From: pramodh (@ ac958143.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue Aug 6 13:58:41
  
  This is interesting. We have always thought of what we wanted. We never think of what our next generation's interests and help towards thta. This idea is something definitely achievable and will no doubt help to keep Carnatic Music very musch alive and ensure its propogation. With the advent of DVDs its much easier to preserve video recordings. Very few DVDs in Carnatic music have come out for eg the MS concert. Even if not with a view to marketing we should certainly be looking at archiving. As I mentioned elsewhere lots of AIR archives are being dumped. What a waste!
  
  
• From: pramodh (@ ac958143.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue Aug 6 14:00:50
  
  WE havent even learnt to preserve whatever good audio recordings we have, properly.
  
  
• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Tue Aug 6 16:54:06
  
  Sadly, many Indians in general have a lack of foresight.
  
  There are quite a few vintage video recordings, including the MS cocert, SSI Sathabhishekam concert, TNK-Mani Iyer (very precious!), MDR-TNK-UKS, etc. These should all be recorded and kept in a central archive (and distributed if they choose). And like I said, we must record our current masters while they are still agile. For instance, a concert recording of TNS-Chandru-Guruvayur Dorai-Vaikom will be immensely precious 30 years from now.
  
  
  
• From: s (@ 203.200.150.111) on: Sat Aug 17 02:00:36
  
  
  Dear Rasikas
  
  There is an interesting e exchange group for carnatic music. Some has got as much as 79 GNB concerts and 200 odd Madurai Mani concerts. Just try that
  
  The group is cmxchange.yahoogroups.com
  
  Sivaprasad
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ 0-1pool56-191.nas40.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) on: Sat Aug 17 09:45:52
  
  In the vocal and aural tradition of Carnatic music, what is heard and what is remembered are more important than what is seen, unless this is the minds-eye view of the vaageyakaaraas vision. Are we contemplating a static camera or will we commission MNight to pan from the calluses on the violinists fingers to the sweat dribbling down the ghatam players navel ? Cut !! Rohans affection for 'priceless' MTV may be more relevant to classical dance.
  
  
• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Sat Aug 17 13:40:32
  
  No doubt is aural tradition is important, but it is not reliable. People cannot even form a vivid description of the artistry of artists like Malaikottai Govindaswamy Pillai, since people of that generation are no more. And how many people pass on minute information on people from generation to generation? Not many.
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Mon Aug 19 09:26:49
  
  Nadopasaka: obviously music is primaraly a listening experience by definition. No one making a serious documentary film of a concert would include stupid production gimicry. OK, so they would, unless seriously restrained, but we can always shut our eyes and still here the music.
  I think the complaints would be more likely to be that, in continued coverage of the main artist, we couldn't see the violin contribution, or would have like to see the mridangist's fingering a little more.
  
  
• From: vidya (@ dialup-65.59.47.145.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Mon Aug 19 10:32:08
  
  From a listener's perspective I agree with nadopasaka,however for performers/& students like nick and rohan video recordings would be a great source of learning..
  
  
• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Mon Aug 19 11:34:28
  
  Learning AND archive.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ 0-1pool26-131.nas32.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) on: Mon Aug 19 23:12:06
  
  I feel that in general, learning in the Carnatic tradition has relied on a guru and a shishya and the fundamental trust between them, with little encouragement to study or observe other methods. The proper archive, for example, of Tyagaraja krities is Tyg. student lines. A need for video enhancement for the pakka-vaadyam or other instrumentalists is also a statement of the inadequacy of the guru or the shishya. Perhaps, in the newer method, a guru may now be instructed by a curious and eager pupil in the practices of another school, but this is mighty doubtful.
  
  
• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Tue Aug 20 01:10:38
  
  Like I said, such a tradition is certainly pivotal, as this is how most of us are trained. But word of mouth is not enugh to preserve things. Each generation must alter and improve upon the previous, so how can we preserve a style? For ex, the authentic Pazhani style is only understood by listening to the tapes we have of him. My guru and othe students of Pazhani haev developed novel styles for themselves. So how can we preserve the authentic Pazhani stlye: video or audio is the only way.
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Tue Aug 20 07:34:12
  
  Nadopasaka; you talk of the guru-shishya relationship as if it excluded the valuable experience of listening to other musicians, attending as many concerts as possible, getting the widest experience of this art.
  Certainly my guru encourages this, and might, for instance, say "tell me what you noticed about X's playing". Now, my Guruji and Rohan's guruji belong to two generations, and I would be interested if Rohan's experience in this differs.
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Tue Aug 20 07:43:08
  
  ... so a video archive is just an extension (in the same way as a tape or CD, but more so) of the concert experience. Nothing can replace the live concert experience, but no-one lives for ever; with a video we can capture a little more of the person than just a recording of the sound.
  Rohan is closer to Palani than I am, as his guruji, of course, was his student. My teacher can tell what his teachers learnt from Palani, but neither can show us Palani playing: that it seems, is lost for ever.
  
  
• From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on: Tue Aug 20 11:45:57
  
  Right! So with a video recording, we could have captured these people's great artistry. For Pazhani died in the 60's, and by then, the movie industry in India was already quite magnifiscent.
  
  Yes, I whole heartedly believe that a student must listen to as many musicians as possible, aside from their guru. Only then can one create a style of their own. For instance, my guru was hihgly influenced by the artistry of CSMurughabhupathy (who died in 1999 and who we also dont have a video record of). Hence his playing obviously has the Pazhani influence, but is also greatly moulded after CSM's playing. The combination is something entirely unique.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 203.199.213.5) on: Wed Aug 28 06:07:40
  
  hi all
  
  i agree with rohan .. one can learn a good amount of stuff by listening to concerts.. i have learnt a number cholkettu played by various vidwans from cassettes. some of them are complicated. As trichur ramachandran once said "kezhvi njanam" meaning knowledge through listening is very important
  
  
• From: Rama (@ adsl-67-116-241-105.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) on: Wed Sep 4 05:11:43
  
  I have to agree with Rohan and with Hari. I believe greatly in the strength of kezhvi njanam or knowledge acquired by listening. A lot or artistic creativity is taking styles that you observe and developing a way to put them together to develop your own unique style while still preserving the integrity of the original artist's styles
  
  
• From: Hari Kumar (@ ) on: Wed Jul 9 21:07:14
  
  I attend regularly the concerts organised by the local sabha at Calicut.And like Rohan I always felt how we are failing in our duty to preserve the music for later generations.This sabha mostly hosts young artists,some of who display prodigious talent.Remember Mallikarjun Mansur's recordings from his youth:what marvellous mastery?The sabha pays the young artists just Rs 2000 or at times nothing at all.
  
  

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