Topic started by ananda (@ 212.232.176.18) on Thu Dec 13 08:03:59 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

the carnatic classical music which has taken shape in 16th or 17th century AD is reletively new.. compared to the ancient 3000(or even more) year history of india..

Can any one tell about the pre-tyagaraja music in south india..??


I wonder

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Nice Chap (@ dial81-131-28-114.in-addr.btopenworld.com) on: Mon Sep 1 14:28:12 EDT 2003
  
  One of the best historical accounts of Carnatic Music I have read. Thank you very much, whoever XXX is !!
  
  
• From: Vani (@ cpe0080c6f8642d-cm012059934377.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Thu Sep 4 19:31:46 EDT 2003
  
  Thank you xxx!
  
  
• From: :) (@ d150-40-7.home.cgocable.net) on: Thu Sep 4 21:57:56 EDT 2003
  
  From: "M. V. Ramana"
  Subject: Pre-trinity composers of Tamilnadu
  Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 01:40:33 GMT
  
  Karnatic music owes a lot to various pre-trinity composers hailing
  from Tamilnadu. In my opinion their contribution to the growth and
  development of Karnatic music is not adequately recognized by many.
  Here I have listed a few of them along with some discussion about them
  and sample compositions so that they can be added to the list of
  pre-trinity composers which was under discussion a few weeks ago.
  Before going any further I would like to caution readers that in much
  of what I write here, the dates mentioned are subject to controversy.
  
  Even early Tamil literature mentions music a lot. An ancient work in
  Tamil literature, the tolkAppiyam, has a few references to music.
  There is a lot of music related discussion in the silappadikAram (ref.
  Prof. S. Ramanathan's thesis on music in the silappadikAram - Wesleyan
  University). However there are no tunes surviving from this period.
  Perhaps the earliest compositions we have which are set to paNNs
  (equivalent to rAgAs) are the compositions of kAraikkAl ammaiyAr
  (approx. 5th century AD).
  
  Next come the composers of the tEvAram. gnAnasambandar (635-651 AD),
  appar or tirunAvukkarasar (580-661 AD) and sundarar (about 700 AD). It
  is said that each of them composed several thousand padigams but only
  a few hundreds are available today. A few tEvArams that may be
  familar to listeners of karnAtic music are sambandar's kAthalAgi
  kasinthu (paNN - kausikam, equiv. to bhairavi) and appar's sotrunai
  (gAndArapancamam - kEdAragauLa) and vAnanai. The original tune for
  the latter is probably lost; the version sung by KVN and DKJ is in
  kIravANi rAga. I have been told that this tune was set by "tOdi"
  kaNNan. The viruttam that madurai maNi ayyar used to sing often -
  vEyoru tOLi.. is a sambandar tEvAram.
  
  A legend involving sambandar mentions that he composed his first song
  (tOdudaiya seviyan) at the age of three - that would perhaps make him
  the youngest composer in the whole world.
  
  Many of the tEvAram tunes have been preserved to this date due to the
  services of the OduvArs attached to temples. Due to the munificence of
  kings like rAjarAja chOzha, they were given lands etc, thus allowing them
  to continue their adherence to music.
  
  In the post-tEvAram period came mANickavAcagar, the composer of
  tiruvAcakam and tiruvempAvai, sometime in the latter half of the 9th
  century AD (controversial date). In his case the original paNNs for
  his songs are not available and they are usually sung in mOhanam.
  According to some scholars this indicates that he predated the tEvAram
  trinity.
  
  Besides these Saivite composers, there were the vaishnavite azhvArs
  whose (approximately 4000) compositions are called the nAlAyira
  divyaprabandam. Some of these composers were periAzhvAr, nammAzhvAr,
  tirumangaiAzhvAr and ANdAL. It is said that these compositions were
  all set to paNNs and that they included some paNNs not used by
  sambandhar, appar, etc, but their tunes have been lost.
  (Dr.S.Ramanathan mentioned in a lec-dem of his that there are
  references which mention the paNNs in which the songs of nammAzhvAr
  and tirumangaiAzhvAr were sung. I have also heard him sing a pAsuram
  of tirumangaiAzhvAr - paLLiyil Odi - puranErmai paNN - equiv. to
  bowLi.) But at some point, the divyaprabandam came to be regarded as
  the tamizh vEdam and so people stopped singing them and just recited
  them. I am not too sure about these and I leave it to someone more
  knowledgeable to give more info. All these divyaprabandams are
  available on-line at
  http://reality.sgi.com/employees/mani/prabandham.html
  
  The music of the thEvAram and divyaprabandham had a lot of influence
  on the subsequent development of musicology. For example, an important
  early musical treatise is the sangIta ratnAkara. The author of this
  work, nissanka sArangadEvA, studied many paNNs and wrote about them.
  (ref. rangarAmAnuja ayyangAr)
  
  There has already been a lot of discussion on the net about
  aruNagirinAthar and his compositions - so I will not mention anything
  about him.
  
  One other pre-trinity composer from Tamilnadu, whose dates I am
  uncertain about, is UthukADu vEnkatasubbayyar. He was perhaps the
  first to compose group kritis on a certain deity worshipped at some
  specific temple - something that was followed by all the members of
  the trinity. An example of this is the kAmAkshi navAvarNam. One other
  popular kriti of his is tAyE yashOdA in tOdi.
  
  
  A few centuries later came four great composers in the 16-18th
  centuries - muttutANDavar (16 century), pApanAsa mudaliAr (1650-1725),
  aruNAcala kavi (1711-1779) and mArimuttA piLLai (1712-1787).
  
  muttutANDavar was one of the architects of the kriti format as we know
  it today - i.e. a piece with pallavi, anupallavi and caraNam. While
  much has been said about later composers like mArgadarsi sEsha iyengAr
  and their contribution to the development of this structure, the
  contribution of muttutANDavar goes largely unmentioned. The tunes for
  many of his kritis appear to have been lost (this may not be true for
  his padams) and many of them were "re-tuned" in the early part of this
  century. Some kritis of his which are famous are sEvikka vENdumayya -
  AndOLikA - sung by madurai maNi ayyar and GNB, and arumarundOru -
  mOhanam/kAmbOji.
  
  muttutANDavar also composed several padams, some of which are still
  popular.The late bAlasaraswati used to dance to his kamAs padam -
  teruvil vArAnO. The dhanyAsi padam, ittanai tulAmbaramO, is also
  often heard. He was probably the first major composer of padams and
  his example was followed by several other composers such as mArimuttA
  piLLai, pApanAsa mudaliAr, kavikunjara bhArati(composer of inimEl avarukkum
  - bhairavi and varattum - sAvEri), vaithIswarankoil subbarama ayyar (composer
  of padari varukudu - kAmbOji and ini enna pEccu - sahAnA) and ghanam
  krishNa ayyar (composer of nittiraiyil - pantuvarALi and tiruvatriyUr
  tyAgarAjan - atAnA). The last three were relatively later composers -
  ghanam krishNa ayyar was a junior contemporary of tyAgarAjA.
  
  Not many of the compositions of mArimuttA piLLai and papanAsa mudaliAr
  have survived till today. The yadukulakAmboji piece kAlai tUkki... and
  the tOdi piece ennEramum are compositions of mArimuttA piLLai. vidwAn
  b. krishNamUrthy once mentioned in a lec-dem that while both these
  pieces were often sung during the turn of the century, most people did
  not know who composed them. pApanAsa mudaliar's compositions include
  mukattai kAttiya in bhairavi and nadamAdittirintha in kAmbOji. The
  latter is an example of the nindAstuti style in musical compositions
  wherein the superficial meaning of the song seems to ridicule the
  deity involved. This was mainly introduced by pApanAsa mudaliAr and
  mArimuttA piLLai. tyAgarAjA has followed this in songs like adigi
  sukhAmu - madhyamAvati.
  
  The songs of aruNAcala kavi's rAma nAtakam are very well known and
  justly famous. The music for these was composed by two of kavirAyar's
  disciples, kOthandarAman and venkatarAman. But sometime around the
  turn of this century, others such as ariyakudi rAmAnuja ayyangAr,
  composed different tunes for these songs and the original tunes are no
  longer heard. The recent net-debate about kandEn sitayai is also a
  reflection of this "tampering". aruNAcala kavi's rAma nAtakam is
  mentioned as gOpAlakrishNa bhArati's chief source of inspiration for
  composing his magnum opus, nandanAr caritram.
  
  Sometime between the times of the AzhvArs and nAyanmArs and
  muthutAndavar et al, there were a number of simple musical pieces
  composed by a group of mystics (usually 18 are listed) known as the
  siddhars. The earliest siddhars lived around the 6th or 7th century AD
  (sivavAkyar). Their pieces were in simple Tamil and based on folk
  tunes. The famous song tAvAram edukkadi.... is a composition of
  kudumbai siddhar. KVN sings this quite often.
  
  Tamil music has also been the source of some relatively recent
  (post-trinity) musical forms which have been incorporated into
  Karnatic music concerts such as the kAvaDichindu and the kiLikkanni.
  Both these draw heavily from folk music. The most famous composer of
  kAvaDichindus is aNNAmalai reddiAr of cinnikuLam (1865-1891). The
  famous chenchurutti piece, manjunIgar, which used to be sung memorably
  by the late musiri subramaNya iyer among others, is a composition of
  his. The late Dr.S.Ramanathan also used to regularly include
  kAvaDichindus in his concerts.
  
  The kiLikkani is a set of "love songs" addressed to Lord subramaNya.
  They were composed sometime in the 19th century by subbarAyaswami of
  ambAsamudram, a devout muruga bhakta and a *head constable* in the
  police force. D K Pattammal and her brother, the late D K Jayaraman,
  often used to sing one of these beginning with the words, vaLLikanavan
  pErai, in their concerts.
  
  A few words about the influence of Tamil music on the the modern
  trinity tyAgarAjA, dIkshitar and SyAmA Sastry. (For an interesting
  article on tyAgarAjA and Tamil, see S. Pasupathy's article in SRUTI
  issue #55, April 1989, page 28. I thank Sri Pasupathy for this
  reference as well as lots of other information/references.) All these
  composers lived in tanjAvUr which has been the center for paN music
  for centuries, it is highly unlikely that they would not have
  regularly (if not every day) listened to tEvArams and nAyana music.
  tiruvArUr being an important saivite centre and having a major temple
  would certainly have attracted the best of OduvArs and nAdaswara
  vidwAns. From various accounts, such as the works of u vE svAminAtha
  ayyar, we know that the songs of composers like muttutANDavar etc were
  quite popular till they were somewhat upstaged by the flurry of new
  compositions in the late 18th and 19th centuries. It is quite natural
  that the trinity would have listened to them also. Given all this, it
  is perhaps ironical that composers like annamAchAryA whose
  compositions were re-discovered only recently, are said to have
  influenced the trinity and thus Karnatic music a lot, whereas the
  influence of composers whose compositions were the prevailing ones in
  the tanjAvUr region has not been mentioned at all.
  
  To summarize, I have tried to indicate several prominent music
  composers from Tamil Nadu and their contribution to Karnatic music. A
  study of their influence on the development of Karnatic music leads
  one to expect that the quote of Isaac Newton about seeing further
  because he was standing on the shoulders of giants would have befitted
  any of the relatively modern composers! It is but appropriate that we
  recognize atleast some of the contributions of these early composers.
  
  Comments/additions/corrections invited.
  
  Ramana
  Source: http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/pretrinity.txt
  
  Detailed discussion by the knowledgeable SriHari here http://forumhub.com/tnhistory/16314.18093.10.43.16.html
  
  
• From: Balakrishnan (@ adsl-64-175-240-243.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) on: Fri Sep 5 12:29:46 EDT 2003
  
  Quite interesting. Thank U very much.
  
  
• From: l (@ 192.39.39.95) on: Wed Sep 17 07:02:15 EDT 2003
  
  Quite interesting.
  
  
• From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg) on: Wed Sep 17 14:45:31 EDT 2003
  
  Thank you smiley. That's the real-story of South-Indian music! Very effectively concealed for a long time till the Tamil Isai Sangam came about quiet recently!
  
  

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