Topic started by Shakthiprabha. on Fri Feb 8 3:23:27 2008.

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• From: Shakthiprabha on Tue Sep 1 3:23:40 2009.

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  Chapter 5
  Verses 23 TO 29
  
  
  
  shaknoteehaiva yah sodhum praak shareera vimokshanaath
  kaama kordhodhbhavam vEgam sa yukthah sa sukhi narah
  
  yo antah sukho antaraaraamas thathaa antar-jyothir eva yah
  sa yogi brahma-nirvaaNam brahmabhootho-adigachchathi
  
  labhanthe brahma nivaaNam rshya: ksheeNa kalmashaah
  chinna-dvaidhaa yathaatmaanah sarvabhootha hite rathah
  
  kaama krodha viyukthaanam yathinaam yatha chethasaam
  abhitho brahma nirvaaNam vartathE vidhithaathmanaam
  
  sparshan kruthva bahir-baahyaans chakshush chaivanthare bhruvoh
  praaNapaanau samau kruthva naasaabhayantaarachaariNau
  yatendriya manobuddhir munir moksha paraayaNah
  vigathechaa bhayakrodho yah sadaa mukta eva sah
  
  bhoktaaram yajna thapasaam sarvaloka maheshwaram
  suhrdam sarvabhutaanaam jnaatva maam shaanthim ruchchathi
  
  
  
  
  
  
  That person who can resist the rush of material desires and controls rise of anger, he is becomes a yogin, right here, even before he gives up his body.
  
  Such man who finds happiness within himself, who is happy and shines in himself he becomes divine liberated, and attains the brahman
  
  Good souls who are free from sin, who has disciplined his mind, who works for other's happiness and whose doubts or duality no longer exist achieves liberation.
  
  Those souls which are self-realised, free from anger and desires, and strives for perfection, for such souls liberation is very near.
  
  Away from external pleasures, with concentration fixing the vision between the eyebrows, breathing evenly inward and outward thereby controlling the mind and senses, thus get freed from desire and the turmoils of mind. He is always in the state of liberation.
  
  Knowing me as the supreme goal of all sacrifices and rituals , supreme god of all worlds, a kind protector of living entities, that person is a sage, and attains peace.
  
  
  
  
  
  எவனொருவன் ஆசையை, கோபத்தை, மனக்கிளர்ச்சிகளை அடக்கியாளும் வலிமை பெற்றிருக்கிறானோ, அவன் யோகி. யோகத்தில் நிலைத்தவன், உடல் நீங்குவதற்கு முன்பே அவன் யோக நிலை அடைகிறான்.
  
  தன்னுள் சுகித்திருப்பவனும், தன் ஆன்ம ஒளியில் முகிழ்ந்திருப்பவனும், மகிழ்ச்சியும் நிறையப் பெற்ற யோகி பூர்ண விடுதலை பெற்று தானே பிரம்மம் ஆகின்றான்.
  
  யோகிகள் சாதுக்களின் பாபங்கள் அழிக்கப்பட்டுவிடுவதால், அவர்கள் இரட்டைகளிலிருந்து அகன்று, பிற உயர்களின் நலம் நாடுபவர்களாக இருப்பதால் அவர்கள் மோக்ஷம் பெறுகிறார்கள்.
  
  ஆசைகளை கோபத்தை துறந்து எண்ணங்களைக் கட்டுக்குள் கொணர்ந்து ஆத்மாவை உணர்ந்தவர்களுக்கு மோக்ஷம் வெகு விரைவில் கிட்டுகிறது.
  
  வெளித் தொடர்புகளை நீக்கி, பார்வையை புருவங்களில் மத்தியில் வைத்து நாசியினுள்ளும் புறமும் செல்லும் மூச்சை சமநிலைப் படுத்தி, இந்திரியம் மனம் புத்தி அடக்கி, மோக்ஷத்தை உயர்வாய் நாடும் துறவி வீடு பேற்றினை அடைகிறான்.
  
  யாகத்திற்கும் தவத்திற்கும் உடையவனாய், உலகுக்கெல்லாம் ஈசனாய், எல்லா உயிர்களின் நலம் விரும்பியாய், நண்பனாய் உள்ள என்னை அறிந்தவன் மேலான உயர்வு பெறுகிறான்.
  
  
  (End of chapter 5 (karma-sanyasa yoga) )
  
  (ஐந்தாம் அத்தியாயம் கர்ம-ஸன்யாச யோகம் முற்றிற்று)
  
  

• From: Shakthiprabha on Wed Sep 2 3:26:35 2009.

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  Chapter 6:
  
  SAANKYA YOGA
  
  Verses 1 TO 10
  
  
  anaashritha: karmaphalam kaaryam karma karothi yah:
  sa sanyaasii cha yogi cha na niraknir na chakriya:
  
  yam sanyaasam ithi praahoor yogam tham vidhi paandava
  na hyasanyastha sankalpo yogi bhavathi kashchana
  
  aaroorukshor munEr yogam karma kaaraNam uchyathE
  yogaaroodasya thasyaiva sama: kaaraNa muchyathE
  
  yadha hi nendriyaarththeeshu na karmasvanushajjathE
  sarva sangkalpa sanyaasi yogaaroodasthadhochyathE
  
  udhdharEdh aathmanaathmaanam na-athmaanam avasaadhayEth
  aathmaiva hy aathmano bandhur aathmaiva ripuraathmanah:
  
  bandhur aathmaathmanas thasya yEnaathmaivaatmanaa jithah
  anaathmanas thu shathruthvE varththEthathmaiva shaturuvath
  
  jithaathmanah prashanthasya paramaathma samaahitha:
  sheethoshNa suka dhukkeshu thathaa maanaapamaanayo
  
  gnaana vignaana thrupathaathama kootastho vijithEndriyah
  yuktha ithi-uchyathE yogi samaloshtaasama-kanchana
  
  suhrun mithraari-udhaseena madhyastha dhveeshya bandhushu
  saadhushvapi cha paapeshu sama budhdhir vishishyathE
  
  yogi yunjeetha sathatham aathmaanam rahasi sthitha
  Ekaaki yatha chithaathma nirasheer aparigraha:
  
  
  
  
  Non-performer of work or a person who does not light the sacrificial fire is not a sanyasin. True sanyasin is the one who works without attachment to the fruits of his work.
  
  Renunciation is uniting oneself with the supreme self. He who cannot renounce sensual pleasures cannot become a yogin.
  
  Work or karma is the means to attain yogic state. When he has become a yogi, then serenity or stopping of performing activities is the way to reach supreme state.
  
  When a person has attained thus the yogic state, he is said to have renounced all material desires or gratification of senses and does not act selfishly to satisfy his senses or does not stay attached to the fruits of work.
  
  Man must lift himself by his own self (i.e. self knowledge) He should rise higher with his mind and not fall down and degrade himself. For self, matured mind or 'self' alone is the friend and 'self' alone is his enemy.
  
  For the one who rules his mind with intellect or his shining atman, the mind or self becomes his best friend, and for him who has not reigned his mind, mind becomes the worst enemy.
  
  For that person who has conquered his self, the supreme state is already perceived, he has mastered serenity. In happiness or sorrow, heat or cold, pleasure or pain, honour or dishonour matters not, and he remains in peace ever. (not that they dont face opposites or dualities, but such situations, even when faced, doesn't matter to such yogins as they perceive them as same)
  
  An ascetic soul is satisfied with self knowledge and realisation. He is stable and unswerving in his attitude, he has mastered his senses and self-controlled. thus he sees everything the same. He sees stones and gold with same vision.
  
  Still more excelling is that person who regards his friends and foes equally. He is equi-minded amongst those who are hateful or pioius. He vision and attitude remains same amidst sinner and saint.
  
  A yogin should constatntly concentrate his mind on the almighty brahman, He should live in solitude, alone and should be carefully controlling his mind. He should rid himself from desires and longings for posessions.
  
  
  
  
  
  கருமத்தின் பயன் கருதாது செய்யவேண்டிய கடமையைச் செய்பவன் சன்யாசி அல்லது யோகி ஆவான். அக்னி வேள்வியையில் தன் கர்மங்களை விட்டவனோ செயல்களைத் துறந்தவனோ அன்று.
  
  பாண்டவா! எது சன்யாசம் என்று கூறப்படுகிறது அதுவே யோகம் என அறிந்து கொள். புலனின்பங்களைத் துறக்காதவன் யோகி ஆக மாட்டான்.
  
  யோகத்தில் ஏற விழையும் ஞானிக்கு செயலே வழியாகிறது. யோகி ஆகிவிட்டபின்போ அந்த ஞானிக்கு செயலற்ற நிலை சிறந்த சாதமாக அமையும்.
  
  இந்தியங்கள் நாடும் பொருள்களில் பற்று இன்றி, கர்மங்களில் பற்று இன்றி இருப்பவன் யோகத்தை அடைந்து விட்டவன் என்று சொல்லப்படுவான் (கர்மங்களில் = கர்ம பலன்களில்)
  
  மனிதன் தன்னை உயர்த்திக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். தன்னைத் தாழ்த்திக் (தன் செயல்களால், எண்ணங்களால்) கொள்ளக் கூடாது. தானே தனக்கு நண்பன், தானே தனக்கு பகைவனும் ஆகிறான் ( அவன்= அவன் எண்ணங்கள், ஆசைகள், செயல்கள்)
  
  எவன் தன்னை ஜெயித்தானோ அவன் தனக்குத் தானே நண்பன். தன்னையே வெற்றிக்கொள்ளாத ஒருவன், தனக்கே மிகப்பெரிய பகையாளி.
  
  குளிர் வெட்பத்தாலும், இன்ப துன்பத்தாலும், மான அவமானங்களாலும் தன்னை ஜெயித்து அமைதியான உள்ளம் உடையவனுக்கு ஞானம் பிறழாது சமத்துடன் நிற்கிறது.
  
  அறிவிலும் ஆன்மீக ஞானத்திலும் அமைதி கண்டு, புலன்களை வென்றவனுக்கு மண்ணும் கல்லும் பொன்னும் சமப்பார்வையில் அமையும். அவனே யோகி.
  
  அவனை விட சிறந்து நிற்கிறான் நண்பர்களையும் பகைவர்களையும், நல்லவர்களையும் கெட்டவர்களையும், உறவினர்களையும், தன்னை வெறுப்போரையும், ஞானிகளையும் பாபிகளையும், சம நிலையில் காண்பவன். அவன் எல்லோர் நலனும் நாடும் ஸ்தித மனம் பெற்றவன் ஆகிறான்.
  
  யோகி எனப்படுவன் எப்போதும் தனிமையிலும் ஏகாந்தத்திலும் இருந்து தன் உள்ளத்தையும், எண்ணத்தையும் அடக்கியவனாய், ஆசைகளை அகற்றுபவனாய் எதையும் நாடாத மன உறுதியுடன் இருக்க முயலவேண்டும்.
  
  
  

• From: Shakthiprabha on Wed Sep 16 4:55:27 2009.

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  Chapter 6:
  
  
  
  Verses 11 TO 19
  
  
  suchau dhEshe prathishtaapya sthiram aasanam aathmanah
  naathyuchritham naathineecham chailaajina kushoththaram ||
  thathraikaagram manah kruthva yatha-chiththendriya kriya
  upavishyaasane yunjjyaadh yogam athma vishudhayE ||
  
  samam kaaya-shiro-greevam dhaaraya achalam sthirah:
  samprekshya naasikaagramm svam dhishaschanavalokayan ||
  prashaanthaathma vigathabhir brahmachaari vrathe Sthithah
  manah: samyamya macchiththo yuktha aasiitha mathpara: ||
  
  yunjann Evam sadha-atmaanam yogi niyathamaanasa:
  shanthim nirvaaNa paramaam mathsamsthaam adhigachchathi ||
  
  nathyashnathaSthu yogosthi na chaikaantham anashnatha:
  na chaathisvapna-sheelasya jaagratho naiva cha-arjuna ||
  
  yukthahaara vihaarasya yuktha cheshtasya karmasu
  yuktha svapnaava bhodhasya yogo bhavathi dhukkaha ||
  
  yadha viniyatham chiththam athmani Eva-avathishtathE
  nispruha: sarva kaamebhyo yuktha ithi-uchyathe thadha ||
  
  yatha dheepo nivathastho nEngathe sopamaa smrutha
  yogino yatha chiththasya yunjatho yogam aathmana: ||
  
  
  
  
  Set in a clean pious sacred place, which is neither too high or low, and then need to be covered with sacred grass, deerskin and a cloth, the yogin needs to sit and with one pointed singular concentration controlling his thoughts and sense he needs to practice yoga for the purification of the soul.
  
  Having the body neck and head straight and erect and staring steadily at the tip of the nose, without allowing his eyes to wander, thus with subdied mind , without fear and following or firm in celibacy, he should meditate upon me, and have me as the final goal in life.
  
  Thus the yogin with controlled mind, always harmonised and at peace, attains nirvana which resides in me.
  
  This harmonised peace does not occur in a person who eats too much or too little or who sleeps too much or too little.
  
  That person who is temperate in food and eating habits, sleeping and recreaton and is restrained in actions can mitigate his miserries by practicing yoga.
  
  With the practice of yoga, he disciplines his actions physical and mental and dwells in transcendence devoid of sensual desires, he then thus becomes a yogin
  
  
  Just as how a lamp lit in a place where there is no wind, do not waver, so also the yogin, whose mind is subdued and controlled and who always practices union with the self, is steady in meditation and does not waver.
  
  
  
  
  தூயமையானதான இடத்தில் ஏகாந்தத்தில், அதிக உயரமோ தாழ்வோ இல்லததுமான ஒரு இருக்கையில், தர்பைப் புல், மான் தோல், வஸ்திரம் ஆகியவற்றை ஒன்றன் மேல் ஒன்றாக அமைத்துக்கொண்டு, அவ்வாசனத்தில் அமர்ந்து மனத்தை ஒரு நிலையில் கொணர்ந்து செயல்களையும் இந்திரியங்களையும் கட்டுப்படுத்தி ஆன்மீகத் தூய்மைக்காக யோகத்தைப் பயில வேண்டும்.
  
  உடலையும் தலையையும் கழுத்தையும் நேராக அசையாமல் வைத்து, ஸ்திரமாய், ஒரு திசையும் பாராமல், தன் மூக்கு நுனியை உற்று நோக்கி அலைபாயாத மனம் கொண்டு, அச்சம் விடுத்து, பிரம்மச்சரிய விரதம் பூண்டவனாய், என்னைப் பற்றியே சிந்தித்து என்னையே உயர்ந்த இலட்சியமாகக் கொள்ளவேண்டும்.
  
  இவ்வாறு மனதை கட்டுப்படுத்தி எப்போதும் சமநிலையில் இருப்ப்பவன் யோகியாகப் பெற்று, என்னுடன் இருக்கும் அமைதியில் இறுதியாக நிலைக்கப்பெறுவான் (மோக்ஷம் பெறுவான்)
  
  அதிகமாக உணவை உட்கொள்பவனுக்கும், உண்ணாமல் இருப்பவனுக்கும் யோகம் நிலைப்பதில்லை. அதிகம் உறங்குபவனுக்கும், உறங்காமல் விழித்திருப்பவனுக்கும் யோகம் கிட்டுவதில்லை.
  
  மிதமான உணவும், மிதமான கருமங்களில் ஈடுபடுபவனும், தூக்கத்திலும் விழிப்பிலும் மிதமாக இருப்பவனுக்கு யோகம் துக்கத்தைப் போக்குவதாகிறது.
  
  கட்டுப்படுத்தப்பட்ட மனமானது ஆன்மாவில் நிலைபெறும் போது, அவன் எல்லா ஆசைகளினின்றும் விடுதலைப் பெற்றி யுக்தன் ஆகிறான்.
  
  காற்று புகாத இடத்தில் எரியும் ஜோதியானது ஆடாது நிலையாக எவ்வாறு ஜொலிக்கின்றாதோ, அவ்வாறே கட்டுப்பாட்டுடன் கூடிய மனநிலையில் இருக்கும் யோகியின் யோகமும் மனமும் அசையாது இறையினிடத்து நிலைபெற்று நிற்கிறது.
  
  
  

• From: anbu_kathir on Thu Sep 17 1:32:42 2009.

  [Full View]

  Shakthiprabha wrote:

  Set in a clean pious sacred place, which is neither too high or low, and then need to be covered with sacred grass, deerskin and a cloth, the yogin needs to sit and with one pointed singular concentration controlling his thoughts and sense he needs to practice yoga for the purification of the soul. Having the body neck and head straight and erect and staring steadily at the tip of the nose, without allowing his eyes to wander, thus with subdied mind , without fear and following or firm in celibacy, he should meditate upon me, and have me as the final goal in life. .

  
  
  I always wonder whats the deal with celibacy and the whole thing about withdrawing those natural impulses. Anyway..
  
  
  

  Quote:

  In the eight rungs of Yoga (Yoga Sutra 2.29), rung five is Pratyahara, the withdrawal of the senses. This is often mistaken to mean that we sit still and close our eyes. While that is very important, it is not the real meaning of sense withdrawal, or Pratyahara. Here, when we truly turn attention inward from not only the typical objects of attention, but also inward from the senses themselves, we encounter the deeper ability to concentrate on mind itself. Mind itself is formless, in the conventional sense of an object having shape and dimensions, just as the senses and elements were also described as formless in the conventional sense.

  
  
  http://www.swamij.com/prakriti-purusha-sankhya.htm
  
  
  Love and Light.
  
  

• From: Shakthiprabha on Thu Sep 17 3:14:04 2009.

  [Full View]

  anbu_kathir wrote:

  I always wonder whats the deal with celibacy and the whole thing about withdrawing those natural impulses. Anyway..

  
  
  I aint sure about breath control though they do relate mind-control is made easier thro breath control n concentration.
  
  Celibacy: I suppose its important during the pursuit of pure knowledge as any amount of distraction is bound to indulge u more deeply into the sensual gratification. Just like how tongue doesn't stop to crave for savouries and sweet, ears are not tired of hearing praises about us, eyes are not tired of seeing our near n dear ones, all senses never tire to experience what they want. Mind control is far more superior and difficult.
  
  It is said, the greatest and toughest sensual control is control of sexual desire. When the aspirant achieves the control thro right amount of indulgence and gradually proceed towards celibacy they win the desire for mate.
  
  Having won, the yogin or saint dont swerve even when they are experience the gratification when necessary. (shankaracharya or raghavendra or other saints are great examples for the same)
  
  Before winning the desire, when we indulge more n more into it, it is very powerful to push us greater into the deep invisible pit.
  
  Hence mild indulgence and later celibacy is adviced for serious aspirants . Thats my understanding.
  
  

  Quote:

  http://www.swamij.com/prakriti-purusha-sankhya.htm

  
  
  Thanks for the link prasad
  
  

• From: anbu_kathir on Thu Sep 17 3:24:19 2009.

  [Full View]

  I very much like the idea of 'observation' than 'control'. Buddhists constantly talk of 'mindfulness', which means involving oneself completely within the task at hand, whatever activity that may be. Control automatically 'dawns' with persistent observation, I think.
  
  Anyway .
  
  Love and Light.
  
  

  Shakthiprabha wrote:

  I aint sure about breath control though they do relate mind-control is made easier thro breath control n concentration. Celibacy: I suppose its important during the pursuit of pure knowledge as any amount of distraction is bound to indulge u more deeply into the sensual gratification. Just like how tongue doesn't stop to crave for savouries and sweet, ears are not tired of hearing praises about us, eyes are not tired of seeing our near n dear ones, all senses never tire to experience what they want. Mind control is far more superior and difficult. It is said, the greatest and toughest sensual control is control of sexual desire. When the aspirant achieves the control thro right amount of indulgence and gradually proceed towards celibacy they win the desire for mate. Having won, the yogin or saint dont swerve even when they are experience the gratification when necessary. (shankaracharya or raghavendra or other saints are great examples for the same) Before winning the desire, when we indulge more n more into it, it is very powerful to push us greater into the deep invisible pit. Hence mild indulgence and later celibacy is adviced for serious aspirants . Thats my understanding.

  
  

• From: pradheep on Thu Sep 17 6:38:56 2009.

  [Full View]

  Quote:

  during the pursuit of pure knowledge as any amount of distraction is bound to indulge u more deeply into the sensual gratification.

  
  Dear Sp,
  
  Thats correct.
  
  Music gratifies - one hearing sense,
  
  Movies gratifies two (audio-visual).
  
  Talking to others is enjoyable because of the three organs involved.
  
  Food gratifies four, taste, touch, visual and smell.
  
  Sexual act gratifies all five senses.
  
  The more sense organs involved, more difficult to take the mind away from it.
  
  The "I" thought is maximum displayed during sexual act, because sexual act gratifies all the five sense organs.
  http://veda.sakthifoundation.org/kama-shastra.htm
  
  Dear AK
  '[url]observation' than 'control'[/url].
  
  That's right, mere controlling keeps desires hidden and will outburst voilently when there is a vent. Observation alone is an excuse for the Ego, to keep gratifying with the pretext of "observation".
  
  So both should go hand in hand. See here about the symbolism of observation .
  http://www.sakthifoundation.org/Space_how_to-8.htm
  
  

• From: harishkumar09 on Thu Sep 17 14:51:09 2009.

  [Full View]

  Shakthiprabha wrote:

  harishkumar09 wrote: Madhva gives a novel and different interpretation to this verse. He says that one should perform actions and aspire for the fruits of ones actions ! He divides fruits into two kinds - mukhya phala and amukhya phala --- the primary and secondary. The primary fruits are knowledge , devotion and detachment from materialistic existence. The secondary fruits are materialistic ones like wealth, position and progeny. The Gita says one should expect the primary results and not the secondary results. On deeper analysis we find that the secondary results accrue inevitably as a result of the performance of ones actions, even if we don't wish for them. Interesting facts about primary and secondary fruits However Ive read that, it seems the ultimate detachment is even detaching from the concept of god himself or knowledge or bhakthi. The essense should be just BEING (not attaching to any kind of fruit) and thats all there is to it, but then, thats talking about very superior level and not applicable to almost everybody.

  
  
  That would be the buddhistic concept.In buddhism there is no God and so you detach yourself from the concept of God or Knowledge or Bhakthi.
  
  But if we take a soul as the eternally existing entity (as described in the BG) then knowledge and bhakthi would be there even in the end. This is because the soul is constituted of knowledge and Love and you can't detach Knowledge and Bhakthi without annihilating the soul itself, which is exactly what happens in Buddhism(Nirvana which means 'blow out') and advaita(dissolution into the Nirguna Brahman).Thats why you will find that in Advaita there is not much emphasis on devotion.
  
  In the Vaishnava schools of thought the soul is eternally existent and knowledge and devotion which "make up" the soul also continue to exist in the final stages. Detachment would mean detachment from material attributes only and even here it is by cultivating superior taste rather than forcible supression of the sex urges.
  
  

• From: pradheep on Thu Sep 17 17:06:21 2009.

  [Full View]

  Dear Harish
  

  Quote:

  why you will find that in Advaita there is not much emphasis on devotion.

  
  Adi Shankara the exponent of Advaita wrote various devotional slokas on dieties.
  
  

• From: Shakthiprabha on Thu Sep 17 23:49:59 2009.

  [Full View]

  pradheep wrote:

  Music gratifies - one hearing sense, Movies gratifies two (audio-visual). Talking to others is enjoyable because of the three organs involved. Food gratifies four, taste, touch, visual and smell. Sexual act gratifies all five senses.

  
  
  Interesting pradeep. thankyou.
  
  

  harish wrote:

  Detachment would mean detachment from material attributes only and even here it is by cultivating superior taste rather than forcible supression of the sex urges.

  
  
  Forcible supression of sexual or any material urge never works. It is gradual dis-interest with the help of KNOWLEDGE, that alone lifts one away from material desires and makes him yearn for different goal than materialistic goal. To such men, who already have proceeded quite a distance in achieving the goal, detachment of desires of any kind happens naturally. It is about such yogins we talk on in sankhya yoga. Normal man in a single leap, in single day, acnnot become a yogin. Its a gradual process.
  
  I feel it is initially thro bhakthi and then gnaana.
  
  

  harish wrote:

  That would be the buddhistic concept.In buddhism there is no God and so you detach yourself from the concept of God or Knowledge or Bhakthi. But if we take a soul as the eternally existing entity (as described in the BG) then knowledge and bhakthi would be there even in the end. This is because the soul is constituted of knowledge and Love and you can't detach Knowledge and Bhakthi without annihilating the soul itself, which is exactly what happens in Buddhism(Nirvana which means 'blow out') and advaita(dissolution into the Nirguna Brahman).Thats why you will find that in Advaita there is not much emphasis on devotion.

  
  
  soul as eternally existent can here means "consciousness" or "being" i.e. the nirguna brahman. Soul here therefore may mean nirguna brahman.
  
  Karmas or vasanas alone makes the difference but they are not part of soul and hence are not eternal. Without these soul is without guna i.e. nirguna. So what difference does it make to call it a soul or nirguna brahman?
  
  

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